18 R23 surf setup changes...what happened?

[Germaine Marine]

Obviously their is more then one way to skin a cat here. Ill leave this here and you can take it or leave it.

If a system boat relies significantly on being heavy in the rear then lets do everything we can to boost that right?

Lets get the boat as heavy as possible, and lets use the plates as little as possible as well. Why? Because those neat little surf plates also induce a **** ton of lift back into the equation and that lift means all of that ballast you spent time filling is being cancelled out.

Lean the boat to 2 degrees or so to the surf side at rest and use as little surf plate as your crew and weight will allow. The center plate should also be used as little as possible. My rule of thumb is that if you can get the wash knocked down with the center plate in the 4/5 range then you are about perfect in the pitch department.

The roll should be just enough to produce a clean face and get the wash up and out of the way. More plate can do this but it comes at the expense of lift and and a flatter front section of the wave. I opt to lean the boat a little more and run less plate. We arent talking a whole lot, maybe 3-400lbs, maybe less.

Hope this helps, if not im sorry. lol.

[cnote]

all really good insight @elevated. i actually had no idea that the taps and surf plates were based on something other than their actual position relative to fully stowed or deployed. It makes sense that they don't now that i think of it but it just never occurred to me. I echo that pitch and roll stats are key. Once you find them, that will give you a great, repeatable wave.

I'll also echo more weight in back = better wave (more solid, more push, longer sweet spot). hands down.

final note, I suspect new actuator placement is not rolling the hull as much as it used to. two things make me suspect this. 1) i am running identical plate settings, speed, weight, etc and i am now running about 200-300 rpm less than last year. 2) it seems i need more weight to surf side, esp goofy, to achieve the ideal roll and a clean wave. No proof, other than circumstantial. And not that it's really impactful other than a clean goofy wave being more sensitive to other external factors like wind and rollers.

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[Bamer]

@elevated and/or @cnote,

Do you need more roll on the starboard side wave than the port side wave?


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[cnote]

for me, yes. it seems about 5 degrees or so is my sweet spot for goofy.

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[wired1236]

Where was your lead for the pic above?


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All lead was on the rear under the sacks.


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[wired1236]

18 R23 surf setup changes...what happened?

for me, yes. it seems about 5 degrees or so is my sweet spot for goofy.

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I’ve found that too in that on goofy I needed more roll hence not fully filling the aft opposite bag 100%.

However, as I’ve said, I’m still learning and all of these great tricks help a ton! (No pun intended).

I’ve been trying to achieve length while not loosing push on the goofy side as the steepness doesn’t seem to be an issue despite the pic. This is the 1st time I’ve heard the 2deg list at rest which is interesting. Ill definitely try filling all rear and achieving that with bow weight along with setting taps 3 plates at 1 to start.

Thanks for the insight!!


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[Germaine Marine]

all really good insight @elevated. i actually had no idea that the taps and surf plates were based on something other than their actual position relative to fully stowed or deployed. It makes sense that they don't now that i think of it but it just never occurred to me. I echo that pitch and roll stats are key. Once you find them, that will give you a great, repeatable wave.

I'll also echo more weight in back = better wave (more solid, more push, longer sweet spot). hands down.

final note, I suspect new actuator placement is not rolling the hull as much as it used to. two things make me suspect this. 1) i am running identical plate settings, speed, weight, etc and i am now running about 200-300 rpm less than last year. 2) it seems i need more weight to surf side, esp goofy, to achieve the ideal roll and a clean wave. No proof, other than circumstantial. And not that it's really impactful other than a clean goofy wave being more sensitive to other external factors like wind and rollers.

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Less plate would increase RPM not decrease. You probably are getting more deployed now actually with the change. What I mean by more is that the system now is able to more consistenly shove more plate in the water.

I would play with higher plate numbers vs less and report back. I will check a boat tomorrow but if my mind serves me right, the deployed/stowed degrees didnt change enough to make a massive difference. You might have gotten a few more degrees down which would hike your taps 3 numbers up by 1-3 depending where in the spectrum you picked up some throw. The movements arent linear. For example taps 1-3 could be 1/8 inch of throw movements, 4-6 1/2 inch movement and so on. I would have to check we are just pushing past taps 3. So many boats are coming into us for GSA so we are really geared for that. I can look at a few I have though and see if I can give you some idea on what you picked up so you can associate that with a number.

If I had to guess, your numbers shifted up 3-4. Not even because the geometry changed to give you more throw, rather that the geometry now allows the system to more consistently get to full stroke.

[Germaine Marine]

for me, yes. it seems about 5 degrees or so is my sweet spot for goofy.

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Try pushing to 6 degrees and yanking a smidge more surf plate out.

[Germaine Marine]

I’ve found that too in that on goofy I needed more roll hence not fully filling the aft opposite bag 100%.

However, as I’ve said, I’m still learning and all of these great tricks help a ton! (No pun intended).

I’ve been trying to achieve length while not loosing push on the goofy side as the steepness doesn’t seem to be an issue despite the pic. This is the 1st time I’ve heard the 2deg list at rest which is interesting. Ill definitely try filling all rear and achieving that with bow weight along with setting taps 3 plates at 1 to start.

Thanks for the insight!!


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Anytime, sorry I havent been on more. Ill do a better job of checking in and out.

[Bamer]

18 R23 surf setup changes...what happened?

@elevated, I made a step by step procedure based off your past few post on here. Can you take a look to see if I captured everything correctly?

Setup Ballast:
1) Fill ballast 100% all around (visual verfiy bags are full and overflowing, plug to prevent passive draining)
2) Move people/lead around until 2deg roll towards surf side and 2deg of pitch up is achieved at rest. If roll and pitch cannot be achieved by moving lead or people, first try to drain non-surf side bow. ~300lbs less weight on non-surf side should achieve desired list.

Test Run#1 without surfer:
1) Set surf plate to 1
2) Set center plate to 4/5
3) Set speed to 11.2-11.4mph (or to your preference)
4) Put in gear and throttle up like normal with surfer
5) Once at speed, make note of wave
6) Increase surf plate setting by +1 and observe wave
7) Repeat step 6 until wave is no longer clean, while keeping track of best plate position
8) Reduce throttle until stopped and put in neutral

Test Run#2 without surfer:
9) Set surf plate to best position noted in steps 6-7 above
10) Set center plate to same as step 2
11) Set speed to same as step 3
12) Put in gear and throttle up like normal with surfer
13) Once at speed, make note of wave. Wave should be same as Test Run#1 best wave,
13a) if not, stop test, reduce surf setting by -1 and repeat Test Run #2( the thought here is the actuator needs more time to achieve best deployment angle found in step 6-7)
14) Step 14 assumes best wave has been achieved, so proceed on, if not something fundamentally must be wrong. Try again with different ballast setup or go into troubleshooting mode on TO Forum (lol)!
15) Adjust center plate to clean up prop wash and/or to achieve desired wave height/length. If you can't find wave height or length you want, go back to Ballast Setup or step 3 to change speed then repeat test run#1

Setup Complete, put surfer in the water and follow this guidelines:
1) NEVER adjust surf plate while underway except when following Test Run#1 procedure
2) use speed as the preferred method to adjust wave height and length
3) use center plate as a secondary method to adjust wave height and length

@elevated, Thanks for all the help! Let me know if I need to tweak any steps. I’m gonna try this procedure this weekend and report back!



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[cnote]

Try pushing to 6 degrees and yanking a smidge more surf plate out.

I'll try this again, but when testing previously anything over a 4 washed out the goofy wave, but also didn't move ballast around.

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[Germaine Marine]

I'll try this again, but when testing previously anything over a 4 washed out the goofy wave, but also didn't move ballast around.

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As you pull plate out you will also be taking away lean. Taps 3 induces a certain amount of lean, as much as 3 degrees depending.

So, yes if the boat wasnt leaned over to 6 degrees and instead was around 3-5 when you pulled some plate out the neccesary lean is no longer there and in comes the wash or that dreaded line across the front section of the wave.