18 R23 surf setup changes...what happened?

[KEH]

My set up looks identical. Appears the modification was done correctly, which is what I expected from my dealer.
Tested the rams in the dealer mode and they are working great. No weakness deploying/retracting and they look to be stowing correctly.
Really at a loss for what has caused the change in performance and settings from last season???

[Bamer]

In my experience they take on water. Lencos are just a little electric motor with some gears inside. Water and electric motors...well.

They fail in a number of ways. The thing to remember is they dont have a sender so they dont know where they are in the real world. Hypothetical here...you select a #3 at the screen for TAPS3. The PDM sends current to the actuator for 2.5 seconds to get to that #3 position. If the actuator is slow/sluggish due to water intrusion it wont travel as far in that 2.5 seconds that a healthy actuator would.

So you never really got a "#3" deployment in the above hypothetical. That's why I say you also need to rule out actuators as well as geometry.

Freeheel4life,

Could you be so kind to list what changed with these new bracket setup?

Same plates and plate mount location right? Which bracket changed, both? New top bracket? New mount location and of top bracket? Etc.....


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[cnote]

Where do u put the phone when taking measurements with the clinometer app? What phone model did u use?


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on the helm dash. galaxy s8+. I've done it on the floor before, too, but this time had lead bags next to me so wasn't sure it would be on a flat surface.

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[freeheel4life]

Freeheel4life,

Could you be so kind to list what changed with these new bracket setup?

Same plates and plate mount location right? Which bracket changed, both? New top bracket? New mount location and of top bracket? Etc.....


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I can try and get some for you later. Swamped at the shop.

[KoolAid]

Freeheel4life,

Could you be so kind to list what changed with these new bracket setup?

Same plates and plate mount location right? Which bracket changed, both? New top bracket? New mount location and of top bracket? Etc.....


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Both swivel brackets changed and the location of the actuator moved. Same plates.

[KEH]

Both swivel brackets changed and the location of the actuator moved. Same plates.

Should that or would that have had any affect on the original TAPS settings or performance (surf wave)?

[KoolAid]

Just now getting some time to really follow up on this one. Lets go over my main point on this.

The plate is the exact same plate that it was before. Its in the same location, same shape, it is the exact same plate. If you had a good wave before, you should have a good wave now. Here is the only two things I see as possible issues that would keep the wave from being as good as it was before the update:

1. An actuator is bad. Just because it goes all the way down in demo mode doesn't really mean its a good actuator. My guess is that this is your issue cnote and anyone's issue who has had their boat on the water before the retrofit.
2. The plates are too low (because of actuator mounting location) which is causing it to drag on the side you are surfing on which keeps the boat from rolling over. This you can tell by using a straight edge under the hull towards the plate. How much gap do you have?

Your taps setting should have stayed the same value as your setup before. The taps 3 value will be different. Most boats that were in the 3-4 range on taps 3 will now be at the 7ish range.

[KEH]

Thanks for the reply

1. Other than using the demo mode to confirm the actuator travels and seems strong, how else can you confirm/test that an actuator is bad?

2. How much gap should you have?

[cnote]

Thanks for the reply KoolAid, good feedback. I'd be surprised if it was an actuator issue as it functioned fine last year last run of the year, but i suppose it could have happened and I'll definitely have dealer check it. The plate does engage because I can make a wave, just with a different setup and not as good (height, push, length), as previously described.

Regarding how low the plate is sitting, what is the distance i should expect from bottom of hull?

I do know with exact settings and ballast setup I had last year after surf plate actuator update, when dialing the wave this year I moved surf tabs at every setting from 4 (last year) to 10 (max) and the wave didn't clean up until i completely changed the pitch of the hull (much lower bow attitude) by adjusting ballast. My surf plate setting in this new setup is 5. Ill test again with a 7 setting next week and get back with feedback.

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[cnote]

oh, and in these photos on trailer you can see players are mounted at bottom of hull, but fully retracted.

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[Bamer]

5 degrees should be enough.

So when the boat pitches up to say 6-11degrees that would put the surf plate in contact with the water right? When my boat had the top bracket rotated 180 causing the plate to engage the water at all times, my dealer salesman was not able to make a wave at all. Now that’s they corrected the top bracket, they were able to make a wave but he did not try to optimize the wave. When I was optimizing my wave, the wave completely washed out when I reached a pitch of about 6degree and the wave looked just like it did with the top bracket rotated 180 which leads me to believe that the unused surf plate is contacting the water just like before.

It would be nice if someone at the factory could ask the software developers of the surf system portion of the tige touch2 this question:
When the surf system is turned on, does the software move the unused surf plate at all? I am speculating that the non surf side plate is predeployed a little to reduce the transition time from surf left to surf right or right to left. That’s what I would have done since a reduced transition time is important as a sales n marketing tactic. Another speculation assuming my predeployment thought is true is that since the bracket change has slightly different geometries is that one inch in actuator travel is more degrees of angle travel of the surf plate as compared to the previous bracket setup. If both speculations are true, then this could cause the unused surf plate to engage the water jacking up the wake.

With all that said, I give this a 50/50 shot that I am completely FOS, but all I know is that I’ve spent a lot of money on a surf boat that doesn’t surf very good and this hull has a legacy of amazing surf wakes as the well-known Z3.

It would be great if someone from Tige could contact me to talk over the phone about this.


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[cnote]

So when the boat pitches up to say 6-11degrees that would put the surf plate in contact with the water right? ....

When I was optimizing my wave, the wave completely washed out when I reached a pitch of about 6degree and the wave looked just like it did with the top bracket rotated 180 which leads me to believe that the unused surf plate is contacting the water just like before.

....but all I know is that I’ve spent a lot of money on a surf boat that doesn’t surf very good and this hull has a legacy of amazing surf wakes as the well-known Z3....

^^^ you may be on to something here.

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[KEH]

Just to close the loop on my situation.
Had the boat out today with the sales manager (he was doing another demo on the lake).
After the port front ballast pump was replaced, filled everything up as before and now everything is back to normal. TAPS back to 4 and 4, 11.2-11.6, 250lbs lead under each rear bag, 100lbs lead port and starboard under each mid point seat and 100lbs lead in the cooler and killer wave is back. Have to assume in my case it was the lack of bow ballast that was causing my issues.
Good luck to the others finding the issue.
Cheers

[cnote]

I fill all ballast until it's coming out overflow then drain to desired setting, i def can fil them all. i plug the rears manually once full to prevent passive draining when underway.

did you happen to take pitch/roll stats while you were out?

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[KEH]

No sorry