TAPS 21 v2.0

[Germaine Marine]

Uh, did we just figure out some of your problem?

Gsa max down is really like 12 degrees. You set your at 16 meaning using probably 11-12 which is still to much. What is your stow? Our boats are set with a max down of about 12 degrees and ran roughly at 7-9 down. We have over 28 degrees stowed which is the most important aspect in all of this.

[UNSTUCK]

When I set mine up the priority was to get the stowed height as high as possible. As I posted on the previous page that gave me an angle of about 34*. If I set it any higher I would be getting into the swim deck/mount. Doesn't need to be any higher anyways as the offside tab is completely out of the water. Not by much, but an inch or a mile is all the same at this point. It's not affecting the wave at all. So once I got to that point I extended the actuator all the way and set it all up again. It just so happened that my fully deployed angle is 16 degrees down. That doesn't really mean anything, except that it does go down enough. It's okay that it goes past 12. Just means that my surf numbers on the screen wont be the same as what yours are when running at the same angle. For example, my best wave so far was on "Surf 2". On paper (and on the trailer) that means my tab angle was 15 degrees down. In actuality I'm sure it was less than that. If you're saying the best angles are 7-9 down, that just means that my surf numbers would need to be set at 5-6 which is probably more like 3-4 on your boat.

What I don't get is that if you start by setting your max down first (in your case 12 degrees), then how are you not hitting the swim deck or mount when stowing? Are you raising them up? Doubtful. I understand our tabs are slightly different, but we are using the same travel in our actuators which should give us the same range of motion. I guess if you are using some kind of adapter to mount to the transom than your hinge will not be in the same location which would change the pivot point and affect your travel. Personally I'd rather have more travel than needed. Just gives me more options, even if they never get used.

[Germaine Marine]

When I set mine up the priority was to get the stowed height as high as possible. As I posted on the previous page that gave me an angle of about 34*. If I set it any higher I would be getting into the swim deck/mount. Doesn't need to be any higher anyways as the offside tab is completely out of the water. Not by much, but an inch or a mile is all the same at this point. It's not affecting the wave at all. So once I got to that point I extended the actuator all the way and set it all up again. It just so happened that my fully deployed angle is 16 degrees down. That doesn't really mean anything, except that it does go down enough. It's okay that it goes past 12. Just means that my surf numbers on the screen wont be the same as what yours are when running at the same angle. For example, my best wave so far was on "Surf 2". On paper (and on the trailer) that means my tab angle was 15 degrees down. In actuality I'm sure it was less than that. If you're saying the best angles are 7-9 down, that just means that my surf numbers would need to be set at 5-6 which is probably more like 3-4 on your boat.

What I don't get is that if you start by setting your max down first (in your case 12 degrees), then how are you not hitting the swim deck or mount when stowing? Are you raising them up? Doubtful. I understand our tabs are slightly different, but we are using the same travel in our actuators which should give us the same range of motion. I guess if you are using some kind of adapter to mount to the transom than your hinge will not be in the same location which would change the pivot point and affect your travel. Personally I'd rather have more travel than needed. Just gives me more options, even if they never get used.

I didnt read your previous post. Getting the most stowed is the priority yes. Yes I understand our numbers wont be the same, I know the system like the back of my hand. I didnt see that you had shot for the most up and that it also netted you 16 down.

I set the needed down first and then I use the actuator orientation to set or limit the stow. The flatter the actuator the wider the arc. The more angle (higher its mounted ) the smaller that usable arc becomes. The issue here is knowing just how tight you can go on that orientation before the load exceeds 750PSi and blows the actuator apart. May not happen over night, or even a season, but the more load you are swinging the more wear you are slamming on that lenco.

Gsa has the bottom mounting brackets that have different orientations and different mounting locations. We have received a PHD in knowing how to get the most out of the system for each given boat.

We also use a different upper actuator mount that nets a slightly shorter overall swing point.

So I guess my answer is NO, we arent really using the same parts or having the same travel other then both actuators are stroking out at 2 1/4.

As im sure you experienced, moving things even a half an inch can have a wild swing in angle. We have got it about perfected on knowing where to make up or back off in areas. This comes in handy when doing some wild transom boats.

[Germaine Marine]

When I set mine up the priority was to get the stowed height as high as possible. As I posted on the previous page that gave me an angle of about 34*. If I set it any higher I would be getting into the swim deck/mount. Doesn't need to be any higher anyways as the offside tab is completely out of the water. Not by much, but an inch or a mile is all the same at this point. It's not affecting the wave at all. So once I got to that point I extended the actuator all the way and set it all up again. It just so happened that my fully deployed angle is 16 degrees down. That doesn't really mean anything, except that it does go down enough. It's okay that it goes past 12. Just means that my surf numbers on the screen wont be the same as what yours are when running at the same angle. For example, my best wave so far was on "Surf 2". On paper (and on the trailer) that means my tab angle was 15 degrees down. In actuality I'm sure it was less than that. If you're saying the best angles are 7-9 down, that just means that my surf numbers would need to be set at 5-6 which is probably more like 3-4 on your boat.

What I don't get is that if you start by setting your max down first (in your case 12 degrees), then how are you not hitting the swim deck or mount when stowing? Are you raising them up? Doubtful. I understand our tabs are slightly different, but we are using the same travel in our actuators which should give us the same range of motion. I guess if you are using some kind of adapter to mount to the transom than your hinge will not be in the same location which would change the pivot point and affect your travel. Personally I'd rather have more travel than needed. Just gives me more options, even if they never get used.

Another thought. Do you know exactly where each taps 3 number matches up angle wise?

If you dont, I would spend some time doing that. We have hundreds of hours figuring that out by running it and disconnecting actuators and trailering. Over and over with different variables.

You might ask why, but if I know the plates are perfect, and each number is an exact deployment angle then I can remove that from the equation when doing a setup. I know out of all the variables the system is at 9 degrees here, 8 here and so on. That way im not chasing my tail and making wild changes when trying to figure it out.

[UNSTUCK]

After I installed the tabs I went into dealer mode and measured the angle at every TAPS3 position. I did this while lifting up on the tabs and letting the actuator force the tab down, to simulate a water load. I'm curious just how much load is being placed on the actuator now. And while I can't measure PSI I can measure amps. It will be interesting to compare the amp draw between me holding the tab back while the actuator forces the tab down vs. actuator movement in the water while moving. I'll test that and report back. Either way I know my transom mount is a bit higher than what GSA recommends (sounds like you're doing the same thing). Just worked out that way. The higher the transom mount the more leverage the actuator has on the tab making it stronger. A GSA mounted Lenco will never be as strong as a TAPS3 mounted Lenco because of that leverage.

The main problem we face, and I really don't know how bad it is, is that we apparently can't guarantee that the actuator returns to the same position every time, hence the new Parkers that are now being used. Running and then disconnecting actuators for your tests should have shown you that. But if you're saying you know your tabs return to an exact deployment angle every time even with different variables than the Parkers aren't needed. So that's good news for us with older boats doing retrofits.

In my testing I know that to get a tab angle of 7-9 down (per your recommendation....that's for an RZX, right?) I need to use TAPS3 set at 5 or 6. I will try this next time we're out. I will set it to 5 and leave it there then focus on my ballast to get my roll and pitch. This will be interesting for sure because my best wave so far has come at what I assume to be 13-15 degrees down based on a TAPS3 setting of 2. The other thing to note is that my wave seemed to be better at less roll. Like 2-4 degrees instead of 5-6 like what I was trying before. I'm also keeping my pitch at 8-10.

Jason, I know we butt heads a bit on our boating philosophys. I have no doubt that you're putting in the time and making great waves. I take all your advise and read everything you say and really think about it. I'm just stubborn sometimes. Like I've said before, I'd love to have you on my boat and give this system a once over. You still get up to Utah very often? Of course I'd pay you for your time.

[Germaine Marine]

After I installed the tabs I went into dealer mode and measured the angle at every TAPS3 position. I did this while lifting up on the tabs and letting the actuator force the tab down, to simulate a water load. I'm curious just how much load is being placed on the actuator now. And while I can't measure PSI I can measure amps. It will be interesting to compare the amp draw between me holding the tab back while the actuator forces the tab down vs. actuator movement in the water while moving. I'll test that and report back. Either way I know my transom mount is a bit higher than what GSA recommends (sounds like you're doing the same thing). Just worked out that way. The higher the transom mount the more leverage the actuator has on the tab making it stronger. A GSA mounted Lenco will never be as strong as a TAPS3 mounted Lenco because of that leverage.

The main problem we face, and I really don't know how bad it is, is that we apparently can't guarantee that the actuator returns to the same position every time, hence the new Parkers that are now being used. Running and then disconnecting actuators for your tests should have shown you that. But if you're saying you know your tabs return to an exact deployment angle every time even with different variables than the Parkers aren't needed. So that's good news for us with older boats doing retrofits.

In my testing I know that to get a tab angle of 7-9 down (per your recommendation....that's for an RZX, right?) I need to use TAPS3 set at 5 or 6. I will try this next time we're out. I will set it to 5 and leave it there then focus on my ballast to get my roll and pitch. This will be interesting for sure because my best wave so far has come at what I assume to be 13-15 degrees down based on a TAPS3 setting of 2. The other thing to note is that my wave seemed to be better at less roll. Like 2-4 degrees instead of 5-6 like what I was trying before. I'm also keeping my pitch at 8-10.

Jason, I know we butt heads a bit on our boating philosophys. I have no doubt that you're putting in the time and making great waves. I take all your advise and read everything you say and really think about it. I'm just stubborn sometimes. Like I've said before, I'd love to have you on my boat and give this system a once over. You still get up to Utah very often? Of course I'd pay you for your time.

Always more than one way to skin a cat.

You actually have it backwards. A GSA mounted Lenco is stronger then a taps 3 mounted lenco. We know this based on failure rates between the 2 as well as actually measuring the load at the actuator.

[Germaine Marine]

After I installed the tabs I went into dealer mode and measured the angle at every TAPS3 position. I did this while lifting up on the tabs and letting the actuator force the tab down, to simulate a water load. I'm curious just how much load is being placed on the actuator now. And while I can't measure PSI I can measure amps. It will be interesting to compare the amp draw between me holding the tab back while the actuator forces the tab down vs. actuator movement in the water while moving. I'll test that and report back. Either way I know my transom mount is a bit higher than what GSA recommends (sounds like you're doing the same thing). Just worked out that way. The higher the transom mount the more leverage the actuator has on the tab making it stronger. A GSA mounted Lenco will never be as strong as a TAPS3 mounted Lenco because of that leverage.

The main problem we face, and I really don't know how bad it is, is that we apparently can't guarantee that the actuator returns to the same position every time, hence the new Parkers that are now being used. Running and then disconnecting actuators for your tests should have shown you that. But if you're saying you know your tabs return to an exact deployment angle every time even with different variables than the Parkers aren't needed. So that's good news for us with older boats doing retrofits.

In my testing I know that to get a tab angle of 7-9 down (per your recommendation....that's for an RZX, right?) I need to use TAPS3 set at 5 or 6. I will try this next time we're out. I will set it to 5 and leave it there then focus on my ballast to get my roll and pitch. This will be interesting for sure because my best wave so far has come at what I assume to be 13-15 degrees down based on a TAPS3 setting of 2. The other thing to note is that my wave seemed to be better at less roll. Like 2-4 degrees instead of 5-6 like what I was trying before. I'm also keeping my pitch at 8-10.

Jason, I know we butt heads a bit on our boating philosophys. I have no doubt that you're putting in the time and making great waves. I take all your advise and read everything you say and really think about it. I'm just stubborn sometimes. Like I've said before, I'd love to have you on my boat and give this system a once over. You still get up to Utah very often? Of course I'd pay you for your time.

Once or twice a month depending on how the shop is doing. The better its doing the more I can stay focussed here. Yeah I can get out one day, or we can do it at the reunion this year. Im not going to be in a boat much this year so I can focus on spending time with customers and being social. Either way we will connect.

[UNSTUCK]

Thanks. Maybe hit me up next time you're headed this way and we can schedule something. I can be available most nights, but Thursday, Friday, or Saturday afternoons are best.

[Zackdogg]

Thanks for the crash course on the GSA swap, lately, fellas!! I went from knowing not much, last week, to a bachelors degree this week. Still working on my masters, but I’ll get there. Jason, hopefully you make a killing on these systems as you probably sold a truckload of them, lately.


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[Germaine Marine]

Thanks for the crash course on the GSA swap, lately, fellas!! I went from knowing not much, last week, to a bachelors degree this week. Still working on my masters, but I’ll get there. Jason, hopefully you make a killing on these systems as you probably sold a truckload of them, lately.


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We are glad we had been doing them before Tige made the switch. It made it easy when everyone came barreling in to upgrade.

[UNSTUCK]

Well it was an interesting weekend. On Friday we had our first ever "Boatday" party. Seven teenage girls in the boat with just me and one of their fathers. I think my ears are still ringing from the screaming. But the water was great and I got a few pulls in, so the world was right.
We went back to the lake Saturday with a friends family. So we had 9 on the boat again. This seems to be our magic number for a good wave. The lake was crowded and there was more jet skiers out than usual. Had a few follow us way to close. So the water wasn't the best and was making it hard for the boat to maintain a constant speed, and was really hurting the wave. However, it was still really good and allowed us to have plenty of fun.

Overall I am VERY happy with the improvement in our wave over the TAPS3 system that we used all last year. Hands down, this is the way to go if you can. The interesting thing with my set up on the goofy side is that so far there is really only one setting that works. Surf on #2 and Taps on #5. I spent a little time going through the settings this time. I set my speed at 11.2 and didn't touch it. My ballast was 100% all around. I pretty much get garbage on every setting but 2 and 5. This lists me about 4-5 degrees and pitches me up about 8-9 degrees. It really makes it easy to dial in. I never seemed to know if I was at the right spot or not with TAPS3. Now there is no question, at least with this speed and ballast. AT 100% full I really need 3-4 people up front to help get speed up and keep the pitch down. I think for us, 300 in lead up front all the time would be ideal. Other than that we will just use people weight as we like to bring friends along with us anyways. We ended up running 100% front and 85% in the rear on Saturday as we struggled a bit more in the rougher water conditions. That and no one really wanted to sit up front. I would be 100% happy and content with the wave if I could keep the height and push and make it one board length longer. With this new board I'm riding I can really feel it speed up from the back of the wave and start to get me in the air. It's a blast. I know the board is fully leaving the water and a few times I have felt the fins fully unlock their grip so I know they left the water too, but I'm sure only by millimeters. Either way, I'm slowly getting the idea of getting airs. I think if I had a little longer runway to get more speed that would really help.

Anyways, another good weekend in the books.


100.jpg
Too many girls on the boat! But they were fun and my daughter Ashlee loved it for her birthday party.

101.jpg
I love taking pictures of Ashlee and then going back through them. She always seem to give us these little gems. Always a crazy facial expression. We blame that trait on my mother. She is just starting to carve in the wave and she surprises herself every time she does it and stays on the board.

102.jpg
Alivia, my 14 year old, is really starting to look like a surfer. She's been working hard on big bottom and top turns and is getting them down pretty well now.

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These kinds of pictures make the wave look much longer than it does in real life. I wish it looked that long while I was surfing it.

[Zackdogg]

That’s killer!! Looks like everyone had a blast!!

Now I’m even more curious.. I have a way easier time setting my goofy wave.. was that your experience before your plates??

You’re running full PNP now, right??

I run 600# lead in the front now, it’s made a world of difference on hitting plane.. I don’t feel like I can ever have too much weight in the bow.. We end up, usually with a couple of people in the bow, on that lead, a lot of times too..


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[Zackdogg]

We’re running enough weight that we don’t have much problem with height, so we’re riding faster to lengthen that wave.. personally, I’m riding 12.4 most of the time.. most of our other riders are 11.4-12, usually closer to 12 for the guys.. that should lengthen your wave out some..


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[UNSTUCK]

Wow, 12.4 seems so fast. I'll bump it up a little at a time and see what happens.

[Zackdogg]

I won’t let anyone ride below 12, unless they pretty well beg for it.. like 11.6-11.8 is pretty sweet.. The 10’s are long gone.. think riding in the 12’s is where it’s really at...


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