Raptor Fuel Filter Replacement Help

[NHarp1]

My 2016 Tige Z1, Ford Raptor 400 engine hit 100 hours. The last few months I have noticed a pattern....I have to "Key it up" 2 times to get the engine to fire up. Sometimes it fires up on first attempt and others a second rekey. (I wait for the 2 seconds for the buzzer to stop for the system to pressurize before turning the key.) The boat runs great, no loss of power at any time. No check engine lights. Only problem is persistent 1st or second firing the engine up. It just cranks over. I avoid any longer than 3 seconds to avoid flooding it.

1. I have never replaced this fuel filter. I see where it is located and looks to be in a tight spot tucked behind some stuff! Has anyone replaced this Raptor FUEL filter on their own? P/N: 556003
I could use some suggestions on how to get to this.

2. Maybe I need to clean the K&N Flame Arrestor too?

3. I was told it could be my fuel pump going bad.

Any help or a phone call is appreciated.
Nick556003.jpg

[gumby]

How long dose the boat sit between uses? If I am reading your post right. It only gives you trouble the first time you start it for that day? Rest of the day starts fine? (Assuming you shut it off) It is EFI flooding should never be an issue..

[NHarp1]

How long dose the boat sit between uses? If I am reading your post right. It only gives you trouble the first time you start it for that day? Rest of the day starts fine? (Assuming you shut it off) It is EFI flooding should never be an issue..

It does it on first start, third, fourth, sixth, eight, "off and on" throughout the day in between swapping out riders. Sometimes it fires up on first attempt and others it takes 2 key turns.

The boat may be off for like 15 minutes in between riders at times.
You think it is the fuel pump?

[bsreid]

I’m having similar problems with my 16. Turn the key over definitely helps. Initially I thought it was the fuel octane causing bad timing with the starter so I changed from 89 to 91 and it got a lot better or it could have just been a fluke. Cuz the other day it struggled again but that could have been because gas was super low.

Just thinking here and actually when it’s the worst is when it has recently been running and just floating for a bit.

[freeheel4life]

We have a customer that's on the forum that has the same thing yall are experiencing. Only once have I been able to replicate it in the shop and it was after it had sat a while. Was doing an amp swap and ran it on fake a lake to see of I could replicate complaint and I had a longer cranking time. Probably 6-8 seconds before it fired. Every subsequent key on it was immediate. Have also had it happen in a Moomba one time and it was after a long float on the water.
I have sent emails to Indmar with no real answers. I personally dont think its fuel pump related or all you guys would be having other performance related issues(I would think).
This is my crazy hairbrained theory/WAG. I think its programming. Bear with the long explanation.
When you key on you actually dont even need to hold the key in crank like we are used to on everything ever. If you key to cranking position and it starts cranking you can let the key back to IGN position and it will keep cranking. Once the ECM latches the starter relay(believe it provides a switched ground to the relay coil if you wanted to meter it) the ECM will keep the coil energized for 10 or 15 seconds. If engine doesnt start it automatically opens the relay(ECM stops giving the coil a ground) and starter stops. I've not had any boat make it thru the entire programmed cranking cycle and fail to start so cranking times are long but not exceeding the programmed limit and always start first time (maybe 6-8 seconds)

So now that we got the basics of how the starting circuit on the Raptor works out of the way here's where my crazy hairbrained theory comes in .....As this long cranking condition always seems to be at initial startup or after a period of sitting(changing riders or just floating) I think that there is data inputs that aren't there for whatever reason(crank position sensor, cam position sensor, fuel pressure regulator, etc) and the long crank time is ECM finally getting the inputs it needs to start doing some outputs. I'm not 100% on order but the ECM wont provide either fuel(wont open injectors)spark(wont give signal to the coils), or both until it has some inputs from the aforementioned sensors.
So if that sounds like a bunch of technobabble then here's the simple version.
Theres no fuel or spark until some sensors do their job and figure out timing first. Once the computer knows everything is in order and has its timing down it starts.

That's just my crackpot theory. Only reason I lean that way is besides some of the marinization of the Raptor that Indmar does, the only MAJOR difference is the ECM(econtrols vs Ford). I've looked for some Ford forum complaints of long 6.2L cranking times and haven't found anything.

Hopefully someone digs further and finds an answer as it could be mechanical, or someone else has already figured it out and hasn't shared. We haven't been willing to gamble on not getting paid on warranty to chase a rabbit down the hole(Millenium fuel pump isnt cheap) especially when manufacturer has no answer(and the engine is starting). The email I sent about this complaint was supposed to get moved up the chain to the big dog at Indmar(Larry) and he was out teaching service school, and never got a response back. I will try again for the sake of the thread.

In the meantime, for you guys that consisntely have the issue I would try cycling the key from off to IGN. Then off and back to IGN before trying to crank(possibly even a FEW time). If this fixes it I would say it is fuel pump not priming fully at key on. That's would be some proof right there.

[NHarp1]

We have a customer that's on the forum that has the same thing yall are experiencing. Only once have I been able to replicate it in the shop and it was after it had sat a while. Was doing an amp swap and ran it on fake a lake to see of I could replicate complaint and I had a longer cranking time. Probably 6-8 seconds before it fired. Every subsequent key on it was immediate. Have also had it happen in a Moomba one time and it was after a long float on the water.
I have sent emails to Indmar with no real answers. I personally dont think its fuel pump related or all you guys would be having other performance related issues(I would think).
This is my crazy hairbrained theory/WAG. I think its programming. Bear with the long explanation.
When you key on you actually dont even need to hold the key in crank like we are used to on everything ever. If you key to cranking position and it starts cranking you can let the key back to IGN position and it will keep cranking. Once the ECM latches the starter relay(believe it provides a switched ground to the relay coil if you wanted to meter it) the ECM will keep the coil energized for 10 or 15 seconds. If engine doesnt start it automatically opens the relay(ECM stops giving the coil a ground) and starter stops. I've not had any boat make it thru the entire programmed cranking cycle and fail to start so cranking times are long but not exceeding the programmed limit and always start first time (maybe 6-8 seconds)

So now that we got the basics of how the starting circuit on the Raptor works out of the way here's where my crazy hairbrained theory comes in .....As this long cranking condition always seems to be at initial startup or after a period of sitting(changing riders or just floating) I think that there is data inputs that aren't there for whatever reason(crank position sensor, cam position sensor, fuel pressure regulator, etc) and the long crank time is ECM finally getting the inputs it needs to start doing some outputs. I'm not 100% on order but the ECM wont provide either fuel(wont open injectors)spark(wont give signal to the coils), or both until it has some inputs from the aforementioned sensors.
So if that sounds like a bunch of technobabble then here's the simple version.
Theres no fuel or spark until some sensors do their job and figure out timing first. Once the computer knows everything is in order and has its timing down it starts.

That's just my crackpot theory. Only reason I lean that way is besides some of the marinization of the Raptor that Indmar does, the only MAJOR difference is the ECM(econtrols vs Ford). I've looked for some Ford forum complaints of long 6.2L cranking times and haven't found anything.

Hopefully someone digs further and finds an answer as it could be mechanical, or someone else has already figured it out and hasn't shared. We haven't been willing to gamble on not getting paid on warranty to chase a rabbit down the hole, especially when manufacturer has no answer(and the engine is starting) The email I sent about this complaint was supposed to get moved up the chain to the big dog at Indmar(Larry) and he was out teaching service school, and never got a response back. I will try again for the sake of the thread.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. YES, it does make sense. In the mean time, I will change out the fuel filter just to say I did it after 100 hrs. I will probably continue with the same issue once the filter is replaced in 2 days. I cleaned the Flame Arrestor as I know that is NOT the cause.

I just do not want to get stranded on the lake with family on the boat. It is embarrassing cranking the engine on the water and everyone stops talking when they hear the engine FAIL to fire up.
Thanks
Nick

[freeheel4life]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. YES, it does make sense. In the mean time, I will change out the fuel filter just to say I did it after 100 hrs. I will probably continue with the same issue once the filter is replaced in 2 days. I cleaned the Flame Arrestor as I know that is NOT the cause.

I just do not want to get stranded on the lake with family on the boat. It is embarrassing cranking the engine on the water and everyone stops talking when they hear the engine FAIL to fire up.
Thanks
Nick

Dont doubt the uneasy feelings .It looks like I was editing my post when you replied. Definitely try cycling the key a couple times first as it can be an easy way to rule out if it fuel pump as well.

[UNSTUCK]

Mine does the same thing. But like what was said, I hit the crank position with the key and then walk away. It fires when it’s ready. I just assumed Indmars fuel system loses prime. I have never had to crank twice, but usually the first start of the day on the trailer is longer than I would really like.

[freeheel4life]

Mine does the same thing. But like what was said, I hit the crank position with the key and then walk away. It fires when it’s ready. I just assumed Indmars fuel system loses prime. I have never had to crank twice, but usually the first start of the day on the trailer is longer than I would really like.

I'm not sure if the Millenium pump that's in tank has any kind of check valve or not. Dont believe theres one between pump outlet and fuel pressure regulator either(unless its hidden underneath the insulated fuel line). Pretty sure it's a straight shot from FPR to the rail. Find out as stuff breaks and the ONLY fuel issue I've had with a Raptor so far was on a Moomba that had the standoffs on the fuel pump break off so spring pushed pump hard against bottom of tank and it couldn't suck fuel. Caused amp load to go high and blow FP fuse. Other than that the Raptors weve seen haven't had fuel issues.

If you remember next time you put in maybe try the key cycle a couple times and see if it helps and we can suss out any priming issues. Please and thanks

[bsreid]

I’m the farthest from any sort of mechanic or having engine knowledge but I’ll throw this out again. Would having the proper octane fuel effect the timing? Just reading on indmars page and it mentions finding the correct pre ignition timing..
So the reason I’m brining this up is because I switched to better gas and I’m more impressed than I ever would have thought. Starts faster and runs smoother, still super thirsty lol.

Just confirming what others have said turn key over let pump run and then start.

Let me know if you notice anything with the new fuel filter.

[NHarp1]

I'm not sure if the Millenium pump that's in tank has any kind of check valve or not. Dont believe theres one between pump outlet and fuel pressure regulator either(unless its hidden underneath the insulated fuel line). Pretty sure it's a straight shot from FPR to the rail. Find out as stuff breaks and the ONLY fuel issue I've had with a Raptor so far was on a Moomba that had the standoffs on the fuel pump break off so spring pushed pump hard against bottom of tank and it couldn't suck fuel. Caused amp load to go high and blow FP fuse. Other than that the Raptors weve seen haven't had fuel issues.

If you remember next time you put in maybe try the key cycle a couple times and see if it helps and we can suss out any priming issues. Please and thanks

Thanks. I will try to get this fuel filter off tonight and try a double key before cranking over.
This job is for small people!
Raptor 400.jpg

Raptor 400 front.jpg

[chpthril]

Would having the proper octane fuel effect the timing?

Lets word it this way. running the improper octane will effect timing. If you run a lower then recommended octane, there may be spark knock. Once detected, the ECM takes corrective actions, like retarding the timing. With the correct or higher octane, the timing runs its normal program.

I would not expect octane to create a long crank scenario. Theres not much timing going on during cranking. Going up in octane means the fuel is actually less volatile. So it takes more heat to ignite. So in theory, it would make cranking longer. In reality, the EI is hot enough to ignite the fuel, so no actual issue.

Also worth noting, octane is not an indicator of fuel quality, just a measure if its resistance to ignition. Lower ignites easier, higher oct takes more heat to ignite.

[freeheel4life]

Ya. If you find you ABSOLUTELY cant get it where it sits you can remove the plastic shield from the Vband clamp. Loosen V band clamp, but not a ton. Loosen hose clamps at Y pipe gasket. Take off Oetiker clamp on the crossover hose between manifold and cat pipe. Undo 02sensor pigtails and if yours is a late 16 build it may have the skin temp sensors. Work the gasket loose from the cat pipe and if you got the vband clamp loose enough the whole cat pipe can now rotate out of the way.

Hopefully none of that is needed. Good luck and looking forward to what you find out.

[NHarp1]

Thanks for the help. Filter completed with some sweat and choice words.
Leak test was good with Fake-a-Lake.
I will see if things improve next time out on the lake. I put a fuel treatment/cleaner in the gas as I saw some water drain from the fuel filter. (Maybe it was my sweat) (I purchased SEAFOAM). I am down to 1/4 tank so I think I will run the tank as low as possible before I fuel up.

Attached is my fuel pump. I hope this is not the problem. I sort of doubt it after reading other peoples comments.
Fuel Pump.jpg

image3.jpg

[freeheel4life]

Thanks for the help. Filter completed with some sweat and choice words.
Leak test was good with Fake-a-Lake.
I will see if things improve next time out on the lake. I put a fuel treatment/cleaner in the gas as I saw some water drain from the fuel filter. (Maybe it was my sweat) (I purchased SEAFOAM). I am down to 1/4 tank so I think I will run the tank as low as possible before I fuel up.

Attached is my fuel pump. I hope this is not the problem. I sort of doubt it after reading other peoples comments.
[ATTACH]49436[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]49437[/ATTACH]

Glad you got her licked. I am pretty sure some choice four letter words are what gets parts out of tight spots in bilges.
So if the filter doesnt solve I would try the key cycle between IGN position and OFF a few times before cranking. If it fires right up I would say that fuel is just running back to the tank from the rail.
IF this ends up being the case a check valve would easily solve the problem.