Bow Ballast Drain Issue

[KEH]

2018 R21
Figured out why the starboard bag wasn't draining so well.
Lines too long?
Bag shifted?
Really not the greatest design...especially when you can't easily access the bow bags.
Anyone else have the issue and recommend the fix?
Back to the dealer...

[chpthril]

Class-Action law suite maybe?

[Torch]

Same problem on my 17 Z3. I agree not a good design!

[MvM]

Why don’t they secure the lines in place with something? Agree that looks like it could twist up easily. My rear bags are tied in place. They’re easily accessible. Why not secure something you have to crawl into the bow, after removing plates, to see what the problem is?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MvM]

Bow Ballast Drain Issue

Axis all over my lake. Almost every owner I talk to has problems, mechanical or cosmetic with them. You get what you pay for. Axis is crap. Seats torn, surf gate malfunction. Heard it all.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cnote]

Class-Action law suite maybe?

lmao

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[freeheel4life]

MvM.

What boat do you have? Do you like it? Obviously not super happy with my R21 after 11 months. After Tige takes care of issues, I may trade up. The surf wave is still not what I’m look for. Considering ZX1, LSV23, Nautique 210 or Axis A22. I’ve surfed the A22 and I’ve heard the ZX1 has a huge wave.

It's simply physics. Find me ANY 21ft boat that surfs as good or better than a 23 ft boat. More boat in the water=more displacement=more push. Not an apple to apples comparison. Go surf an R23/Z3 and you will say the waves are night and day different compared to your r21.
What would you recall?? The bags?? The pumps?? The hose?? Simply a matter of moving things around a bit. Again an issue that can be easily resolved on the trailer....I just had to modify a stock ballast hose on Mojo today as it was a hair too short and the quick connect kept coming off of the fitting. Everyone's poop stinks man. Get over it, it's just boats.
Does your local Axis/Malibu dealer have a service department?? It's because their poop stinks too

[KEH]

Holy crap...
Can we leave the boat politics aside?
When a guy has an issue with his boat and he posts the problem on a forum, all he’s hoping for is a solution from someone else who may have had the same problem.
So if you’ve had the problem I’m having and have found a fix yourself or your dealer found a solution please pass along the info.
Otherwise I don’t need to hear your comments

[BlackoutATX]

We mostly has Mastercraft, Malibu and Nautique on lakes in Minnesota, at least the ones I’ve been on. Are you have with your Tige? I’m considering something different. Just surfed a Malibu LSV 23 and Axis A22. The way was huge, with tons of push. Double what I’m seeing on my R21, and I have 500lbs of lead and a 375lb fatsac on the rear seat.

I think its a little unfair to compare a 21 to those larger boats. That 23ft boat range seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of waves. Thats why the Z3 was king for so long.

I just want a huge wave. Can’t seem to get it dialed in. My dealer really couldn’t either. Moomba and Malibu’s waves are crazy.

That R21 can make a great wave. Honestly, a lot of dealers have no idea how to dial in a wave. What is your current setup ballast wise? I know you said you already have 500 lbs of lead. That boat loves weight!

MvM.

What boat do you have? Do you like it? Obviously not super happy with my R21 after 11 months. After Tige takes care of issues, I may trade up. The surf wave is still not what I’m look for. Considering ZX1, LSV23, Nautique 210 or Axis A22. I’ve surfed the A22 and I’ve heard the ZX1 has a huge wave.

I didn't say this in my super long reply in the other thread. But, while I personally wouldn't do this, there is nothing wrong with fixing the R21 issues and selling it. Out of those boats there is no way you would catch me in an A22. They don't hold a candle to the other 3. But it is also much cheaper. I have not personally seen the ZX1 in action. But I hear it is a real game changer. Its also 130k. Something to consider is the amount of gas the different brands burn. If it isn't on your list to check out. It should be. It is pretty shocking.

[BlackoutATX]

As far as the front ballast bag issue. If you haven't done this already, get a shop vac and suck every drop of water out of the bags via the drain holes. This will let you get a better idea of whats going on up there. I can't pinpoint this. But I feel like those bags getting twisted up like that is fairly common. One of my main gripes on my RZ4 is lack of access to the under bow area. I actually spoke with my dealer about cutting out the center of each side cushion. There is an indention that looks as though it could be cut. But I didn't have the balls to do it.

[freeheel4life]

Holy crap...
Can we leave the boat politics aside?
When a guy has an issue with his boat and he posts the problem on a forum, all he’s hoping for is a solution from someone else who may have had the same problem.
So if you’ve had the problem I’m having and have found a fix yourself or your dealer found a solution please pass along the info.
Otherwise I don’t need to hear your comments

Sorry KEH. Your thread got derailed rather quickly. I'm sure you are aware but a lot of this belongs..
http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ction-law-suit

^^here. My previous post included.

If you want to fix it yourself here's what I would do...
Start by tilting the trailer up and draining as much water as you can out of the port bow bag.
Next pull the HDPE panels out of the spotters locker by the amps. 3 Phillips screws.
Then remove the drain and fill disconnects for the bag. Try to keep the bag fitting elevated as they are going to leak water onto the carpet you are about to lay on.
While keeping the bag fittings up pull the port bag back and disconnect the vent line. It most likely the only barbed fitting rather than a quick disconnect. It usually requires some heat from either a small butane torch or an electric heat gun. I prefer the butane as the electric stays hot and when you set it down you melt carpet or damage gator step. Depending on where you set it.
Now that you have all the hoses off the port bag yank it out and put it over the gunnel so the last bit of water drains outside of the boat.
Climb back in and see if you can get the front of the starboard bag moved enough to remove the flat spot at the drain fitting of the bag. If not you are going to have to suck it up and pop the drain fitting and get wet. Most the water will end up in the bilge.
Once the bag is empty you can reposition it. It's just too far back towards stern and needs moved forward. Typically once things get repositioned it's not a problem anymore.
Then just reverse the process for the port bag.

That's how I do it. Or just haul it to the dealer as you suggested in post #1. By all means that's the point of your warranty.
PS It took removing one whole screw and a piece of plastic to get in there to see and take a picture. Wouldn't say that's tough to access in the marine world at all. Can think of a quick handful of jobs that are way worse than this as a tech.

[chpthril]

It’s just a boat, get over yourself chpthrils.

Excellent advice that can be taken by others

Holy crap...
Can we leave the boat politics aside?
When a guy has an issue with his boat and he posts the problem on a forum, all he’s hoping for is a solution from someone else who may have had the same problem.
So if you’ve had the problem I’m having and have found a fix yourself or your dealer found a solution please pass along the info.
Otherwise I don’t need to hear your comments

I apologize for my off topic humor. After the day I had, I did not feel like engaging the brain into D @ 8PM on a friday night.

So, lets get down to business.

This is not a new problem and certainly not unique to any brand. The vinyl sacs tend to slide on the carpet. This can be further complicated by longer or shorter then ideal. Hoses and pumps that are not secured can also add to the cause.

I would start by disconnecting all the hoses and pumps.

Get the sac untwisted and laid flat and in position the best you can.

Start with vent line. holding the hose fitting to the sac fitting, we want the hose to just reach the sac fitting without pushing or pulling on it. Now raise the hose fitting up so simulate the sac filling. Again, we dont want the hose to push or pull on the sac. Typically, the unfilled sac sac requires a longer hose then when filled. So as the sac fills, we want the female hose side quick connect to rotate to account for the longer hose. If the hose is too long, it will only rotate so much, then it just pushes on the fitting or sac. So adjust hose as required.

Same basic process with each fill hose. In the case of the bow sac, I would secure the full lines up off the floor, on the wall. This will allow the hose to be in a downward travel when the sac is empty. As they are now, the hoses are at ground level when the sac is empty. As the sac fills, the hose is pulling the fitting and sac down. This needs to be addressed.

Lay the drain pumps in place. We want to make sure that the pump outlet is up. We then want to make sure the pump inlet fitting is lined up to the pump without twisting or turning the sac or pump. Torquing the pump or sac to get the fitting to mate, means it will just un-torque later, leading back to the issue. Same with the outlet hose. Both fittings' orientation may need to be changed, in order to prevent the pushing or pulling. Also check the hose length. Hopefully it does not need to be lengthened, maybe only shortened. we want the drain to to make a natural run to the outlet from the pump without pushing or pulling on the pump. I would anchor the pumps down in place.

Last thing. When yo connect the hose side quick connect to sac, it need to be oriented to it naturally wants to just connect right up. We dont want to have to twist the hose in order to get the fitting lined up. if needed, rotate the fitting in the hose, so the fittings line up. As noted earlier, if you torque the hose to connect it, it will want to un-torque later, pulling or pushing on the sac fitting.

Now do a trial run and fill the sac. Watch all the hose and the sac as it fills. Continue to evaluate the hoses and fittings as the sac gets full. May need to make further adjustments now that the sac is under more real world conditions.

Hope this helps.

[KEH]

Thanks for the recent posts offering some solutions.
We recently switched to the Tige brand.
One of the main reasons was to have access to a local dealer and to easily take advantage of the warranty.
Bringing the boat to the dealership this morning.
I'll be sure to discuss some of the fixes suggested with the dealer.
Stay tuned for an update

[Brianrzr]

My front bow drain kinked after 400 hours on the boat. After looking at it, I cut 12" off the line, added another hanger and good to go. Took about 15 minutes, and works great. Friend of mine has a Nautique that has a rear ballast drain pump that is impossible to reach with out disassembling the entire rear of the boat. No boats are perfect.

[KEH]

My front bow drain kinked after 400 hours on the boat. After looking at it, I cut 12" off the line, added another hanger and good to go. Took about 15 minutes, and works great. Friend of mine has a Nautique that has a rear ballast drain pump that is impossible to reach with out disassembling the entire rear of the boat. No boats are perfect.

Thanks for your reply and your fix.
A kink after 400 hours I would tolerate (that would equate to an issue after 4 seasons of boating up north).
I appreciate no boats are perfect.
Here's where it gets frustrating...
The price of boats has skyrocketed.
Top tier surf boats are pushing $200000 in Canadian dollars (thanks for the new tariffs BTW).
As a result, most repeat boat buyers like myself (and especially first time buyers) expect the QUALITY to have kept pace with the price.
After buying my third boat, leap-frogging from $45000 to $85000 and finally crossing the 6 figure mark (I still shake my head), I really expect to have hardly any issues.
Particuarly issues that I think should have been well thought out and tested before leaving the manufacturer .
Sadly, there is a real tolerance from a lot of boat owners (across all brands) to expect "issues" and not hold manufacturers and dealers to a higher standard to match their sky high prices.

I can't believe I got sucked into derailing my own post...

Update on the bag issue to hopefully follow soon