Supercharger bolt-on

[Zackdogg]

I’m gonna chime in as we run the exact same boat as Zack but at pretty much sea level.

Yes I run pnp, yes I run 900 lead, BUT I don’t have 10 plus people ussally only two. Heck the last couple times it’s just been me and a buddy, so the situation is a little different here. If we had all the extra people and a 15x12 prop on the boat there is no dam way we would get to speed. So with the extra people having a little less weight definitely helps.

Now thanks to Jason and the prop recommendations we have zero problems pushing as much weight as we want. We had full pnp, 900 lead, and 10 adults in the boat. We got to speed no problem. Now my only complaint that I shouldn’t complain about yet because I haven’t confirmed it yet is my regular side wave isn’t working normal. I’m not sure if the larger prop is making it harder to get desired list or my actuators are being screwy.

Don’t waste your money on trying to figure out a 2:1 install. Sell the boat if it’s that big of a deal.

I’m guessing your PnP and lead weight more than my extra 7 or 8 passengers.. usually if we’re 10 there are a couple of kids on there, and more girls than guys.. we usually have 2 or 3 heavy guys, only..

I’m curious to hear if there is a problem with your actuators. A 16” prop, which I want to try, is a deal breaker if it’s messing with your wave.. actually I’m goofy, so maybe who cares about everyone else!! I have a hard enough time getting the boat to lean far enough left, right now.. I can’t imagine worse!!


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[Zackdogg]

^^true story. As far as I know Indmar wasnt offering anyone a 2:1 option until after both PCM and Ilmor did it, which wasnt a bad thing because Indmar got to learn from others mistakes, like 1 1/8" prop shafts couldnt handle the torque. So as far as I know Tige and all the other boat manufacturer using the Raptor didnt get to pick 2:1s until 17. Pretty sure Supra has still opted to not run 2:1s with 440s and its just not an option.. Maybe as tool to move folks into the 575, or maybe Im just wrong. Dont see as many Supras as I do Tiges.

I think the Supra runs a 1.75:1, which I think would be a better option than the 1.5, too.. you guys may be completely right.. if the 2:1 wasn’t really out, at that point, my expectations are too high.. I know manufacturers try to improve most stuff every year or 2, maybe I bought the wrong boat. Knowing that I have the newest boat in our group, the only Tige, and the only boat that struggle with the weight in it, doesn’t help my frustrations, at all. But that doesn’t mean I’m not wrong.


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[Germaine Marine]

I can tell you what our experience in elevation is. 400 is the lowest I’ve run, 6200 is the highest. 400-3000 feels pretty much the same, I don’t really see any difference in there.. our home lake is 4200, sounds like the exact same as yours. That’s where we start seeing some performance loss, but it’s fairly minimum, based on what it will do with weight, I would estimate 10-15% less weight performs about the same as lower elevations. We run on 2 lakes that are higher than that 1 at 5200, and 1 at 6200. 5200, we see probably another 15% loss of performance, with a 15x12 prop, we could only run about 30% ballast with 8 people on the boat, the majority of the people we women and kids, we weren’t very heavy, with a 15x11 prop, we can run like 60% ballast.. these numbers are for surf speeds.. anything above about 12mph, we have to run empty ballast. At 6200’ we can’t really run any ballast.. Trying to cross the lake with some waves, we had a hard time hitting 12-13mph with 6 people in the boat, 4 of which are light girls, 1 like 170lb guy, and me at 230. Maybe 1000lbs in people.

I’m with you on selling, which is part of the reason I say, if I have to sell, it would probably be to change brands. I think today, with a 2:1, my boat is probably $105k-ish??? Maybe $100k.. somewhere in there.. it’s probably a break even deal, right now, and I have a down payment and a year worth of payments behind me. With a 2:1, I could probably keep this boat for the next 5-8 years, unless something really badass comes out. The improvements, with the exception of being able to push weight, which hopefully the 2:1 would change, aren’t great enough to warrant $30k in my opinion. I have never folded my tower, so the fancier tower would be only for looks to me, and a bigger touch screen is pretty well “whatever” to me, personally as I have my screen figured out, and I use the tilt and rise gauges constantly, and would probably miss that a ton.

I would like to get out with you, and will make that trip. The amount of time I have really screws me a lot, but I’d love to figure it out. If we can get Jason there, that would be kick ***.


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Your guys numbers are grossly inaccurate.

[Zackdogg]

Your guys numbers are grossly inaccurate.

Which part? The percentages of power loss are just estimates in my head, but I’m basing them on how much weight I’m running to not hit surf speed, and to just hit surf speed. Basically I use 12mph as my baseline. I do know I can run pretty good to about 4K, and I see big power loss at 5200, and a far bigger loss at 6200..

I do realize there are other factors, besides elevation, like temp and air quality, and I’m not hooked to a computer, or anything, I’m just making estimates.


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[Germaine Marine]

I’m guessing your PnP and lead weight more than my extra 7 or 8 passengers.. usually if we’re 10 there are a couple of kids on there, and more girls than guys.. we usually have 2 or 3 heavy guys, only..

I’m curious to hear if there is a problem with your actuators. A 16” prop, which I want to try, is a deal breaker if it’s messing with your wave.. actually I’m goofy, so maybe who cares about everyone else!! I have a hard enough time getting the boat to lean far enough left, right now.. I can’t imagine worse!!


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You may not think it is but you are running most of the time above 4K feet. That is signifiant elevation for a power train that ANYONE who had any knowledge of towboats should have told you was designed to run where reid is running. You either planned to run at sea level and got the 440 or you planned to run at elevation and got the SC version. This is really really simple. I feel bad that you got an under power boat but as reid can attest the thing runs fantastic where its designed to run.

Elevation is always the question mark, its why so many dealers at elevation will not stock less then a SC boat even with the 2-1. Too many variables.

As reid mentioned, hes running bigger weight with only 2 people on board. This isnt rocket science. Subtract the people weight and then weight it and get back to us. The boat is designed fine, you just are running it outside of its intended purpose, which for one was to not be an elevation boat.

Of course you cant get it leaned over enough. You have 12 people on board, people sitting everywhere im sure and prob arent draining enough on the non surf side because you think you need all the ballast full. That boat is very easy to lean. Drain half of one side, and Ill guarantee its leaned over.

Ill repeat this again despite others opinions. YOU WILL NOT GET THE MONEY OUT OF ANY SWAP YOU DO for a variety of reasons, trust me. Dont buy a boat, buy a boat, makes no difference to me. Just dont do a swap. You will look back and realize what a waste. Cut your losses and find a nice used 17 with a 2/1, tige clear and the power tower and have it maybe cost you an extra 6-8K and call it a good learning experience. Or go buy another brand if you think thats what this is about. It isnt, You need a boat suited for elevation plain and simple, should have from the start.

Good luck bud.

[Germaine Marine]

Finding a Supercharged boat is also a fix.

[Germaine Marine]

I think the Supra runs a 1.75:1, which I think would be a better option than the 1.5, too.. you guys may be completely right.. if the 2:1 wasn’t really out, at that point, my expectations are too high.. I know manufacturers try to improve most stuff every year or 2, maybe I bought the wrong boat. Knowing that I have the newest boat in our group, the only Tige, and the only boat that struggle with the weight in it, doesn’t help my frustrations, at all. But that doesn’t mean I’m not wrong.


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Incorrect.

Supra has always been 1.5-1 still are. The new 2019 SE and the Makai will be the first two with a reduction change. Same rules apply. At sea level I had an SL with lead and 2 people start to tip out. This isnt a tige thing. You just have to wrong motor for what you need man.

[Germaine Marine]

Which part? The percentages of power loss are just estimates in my head, but I’m basing them on how much weight I’m running to not hit surf speed, and to just hit surf speed. Basically I use 12mph as my baseline. I do know I can run pretty good to about 4K, and I see big power loss at 5200, and a far bigger loss at 6200..

I do realize there are other factors, besides elevation, like temp and air quality, and I’m not hooked to a computer, or anything, I’m just making estimates.


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Numbers regarding a swap and getting into a new boat. Grossly inaccurate.

[Germaine Marine]

im going to try and spell this out again.

Lets remove the fact that you have the wrong motor for your use. We already know the wrong decision was made there.

You are comparing your boat to others. That great, lets do it. Tell me what boats so we can determine overall dry weight and ballast factory as well as motor. Then lets compare it to a 6k+ Rzx3 with bigger ballast etc and an underpowered motor. The numbers are going to tell you that you are way way heavier and are running more factory weight then those others I would bet and by a significant margin. You were fed bad info and got the wrong motor. Lets chalk it up as a learning lesson and figure out a way to fix it.

[Zackdogg]

You may not think it is but you are running most of the time above 4K feet. That is signifiant elevation for a power train that ANYONE who had any knowledge of towboats should have told you was designed to run where reid is running. You either planned to run at sea level and got the 440 or you planned to run at elevation and got the SC version. This is really really simple. I feel bad that you got an under power boat but as reid can attest the thing runs fantastic where its designed to run.

Elevation is always the question mark, its why so many dealers at elevation will not stock less then a SC boat even with the 2-1. Too many variables.

As reid mentioned, hes running bigger weight with only 2 people on board. This isnt rocket science. Subtract the people weight and then weight it and get back to us. The boat is designed fine, you just are running it outside of its intended purpose, which for one was to not be an elevation boat.

Of course you cant get it leaned over enough. You have 12 people on board, people sitting everywhere im sure and prob arent draining enough on the non surf side because you think you need all the ballast full. That boat is very easy to lean. Drain half of one side, and Ill guarantee its leaned over.

Ill repeat this again despite others opinions. YOU WILL NOT GET THE MONEY OUT OF ANY SWAP YOU DO for a variety of reasons, trust me. Dont buy a boat, buy a boat, makes no difference to me. Just dont do a swap. You will look back and realize what a waste. Cut your losses and find a nice used 17 with a 2/1, tige clear and the power tower and have it maybe cost you an extra 6-8K and call it a good learning experience. Or go buy another brand if you think thats what this is about. It isnt, You need a boat suited for elevation plain and simple, should have from the start.

Good luck bud.

My bad brotha. I thought you were talking about my elevation estimates I was giving unstuck.

I run 4K about half, maybe 60% of the time, I also run well below that the rest of the time.

I know I have the wrong boat. The solution is what I question. I also use your pitch and rise number religiously to set my wave. That may mean half empty on the off side, it might mean empty, I use your 4-6% lean. I do find it’s harder to lean left, and it seems harder since I’ve gone to a 15x11 prop, but I get it there. One of the reasons I run lead.

100% agree I need a different boat at this elevation, and I am taking it as a learning experience, regardless.


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[Zackdogg]

Supercharger bolt-on

im going to try and spell this out again.

Lets remove the fact that you have the wrong motor for your use. We already know the wrong decision was made there.

You are comparing your boat to others. That great, lets do it. Tell me what boats so we can determine overall dry weight and ballast factory as well as motor. Then lets compare it to a 6k+ Rzx3 with bigger ballast etc and an underpowered motor. The numbers are going to tell you that you are way way heavier and are running more factory weight then those others I would bet and by a significant margin. You were fed bad info and got the wrong motor. Lets chalk it up as a learning lesson and figure out a way to fix it.

Fully agree, I do have the wrong motor, or wrong drive. Absolutely zero argument there.

The G23s are probably the most comparable boat, all around. We also have a couple of b52s, and an Axis with more ballast than I have. I know it’s all apples to oranges, I fully get that. And I’ve already learned the lesson. I thought I had done enough homework on this boat, I didn’t. I was pretty up on boats 10 years ago, kinda walked away from wakeboarding and the surfing we were doing at that point, and didn’t realize how much boats had changed since. I do know, now. I have learned more this summer than I have in the last 15 years about boats. Totally get all of that.


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[Germaine Marine]

If you need any help let me know. Dont fault tige is the main point of my post. The dealer or person selling should have been honest. Regardless I have no hesitation when I say I could prob get you out and into something without getting burnt. Im a call/text away.

[Zackdogg]

You got it bro, and I appreciate it. One of my boys is a firefighter down in Riverside County, and lives around Lake Elsinore. I’ll either come see you, or drag my boat down there and maybe we can work something out. Seriously, thank you for the time you’ve put in helping me figure this thing out.


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[TeamAllen]

I see. He bought a 1/2 Ton truck (which is fine for most people) but needs a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck to pull his load.

[Zackdogg]

I see. He bought a 1/2 Ton truck (which is fine for most people) but needs a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck to pull his load.

I apparently bought a 3/4 ton truck with a half ton motor. I would be fine in the flats, but shouldn’t expect to tow in the mountains..


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