Another Great Saturday On The Water

[UNSTUCK]

Had to post up about a great day on the water. This was our third trip on the new boat and it just keeps getting better. I have had an idea about some extra water ballast so that was our main objective this trip. Running lead is not an option for us as we are limited to overall weight on the trailer and truck, plus there are times where we want as little weight in the boat as possible. So this trip out we filled a 1000 pound bag and put it on the floor as far to the rear of the boat as we could get. Yes, there is something wrong about having a ballast bag out in the open on an RZX. Let's just say it was for science.

We were beyond impressed with the results. The wave was bigger than any we have surfed before, but it wasn't real clean. I started draining both port side bags. Took probably a minute or so and it started cleaning up. There was a ton of boats out and some wind, so I wasn't expecting anything close to perfection.


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Now for the BIG problem. Last weekend my boy, Lucas finally agreed to let me help him on the kneeboard after three years of not wanting anything to do with the boat, other than swimming. Now he's hooked! This weekend he threw a fit each time it was someone else's turn for a pull. He did not want to share the water. This was a huge success.
My younger daughter, Ashlee, has anxiety pretty bad (any advise?). One bad wave or a boat too close to us will send her into a fit where she thinks we will sink and die. She had a pretty bad one just before we were done for the day. We finally got her calmed down, and I don't know how, but we managed to talk her into trying to surf. Last week she was just starting to figure out how to stand up, but each time she would drop the rope right after getting up. This time she held onto the rope and rode it out. Her facial expressions are always priceless. Last night she asked if we could go surfing today. Who needs a job, right?

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So the BIG problem? I see myself having a lot less time behind the boat in future trips.

[KXCORKY]

My god son just turned 13 and had the same fear when he was younger, any time we let off the throttle and the boat would come off plain he would freak out and think we were going to sink. It took until he was 5 for him to be ok with being on the boat and until last summer for him to surf by him self, so I would say your ahead of the game here. Just a lot of reassurance for sure.
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[UNSTUCK]

I'm hoping the fun of surfing ropeless will overcome her fear of the boat and she will start relaxing more. She has pretty high anxiety at home as well so I'm not sure what to do about that. Anyways, by the time we got back in the truck she was super happy and laughing. So it ended very well.

[Torch]

What has worked with both my kids was having similar or slightly older kids along that were not afraid and would actually surf, ski etc. A little peer pressure seeing their friends do these things and instantly they were like Superman!

[Thegerman618]

How did the boat run power wise with that much weight? You said you where dropping weight in the rear to clean it up, was it to bow high? I know we have contemplated dropping a RZX straight down with big weight, but never had the chance as of yet.

[Robmc9]

next step is getting her comfortable with the actual wave. Its pretty daunting looking over at this big wave and everyone telling you to move closer to it. So step 2 now that she's getting up is getting someone to move close to the wave vs being bounced around to far away from the wave and never getting to exerievace the "push" of what surfing is all about. So what has worked well for me is:

1) tell them to not look down at their feet and to look towards the boot, this will help get the nose of the board facing the boat vs outwards and side slipping
2) then have them bend their knees (this relaxes them vs holding onto the rope for dear life)
3) with her being goofy and bending her knees its now time to ask her to "touch" the wave, tell her to hold onto the rope with her right hand only, remind her to bend her knees and then as her to reach out and try to touch the wave (again this accomplishes a couple of things a)the correct board position b)the beginnings of feeling the wave "push" you

then once they are doing that then gas and break needs to be taught but no need to teach that until they use their toes to control the board and they get into the wave.

I do these simple steps for everyone I get up surfing from 4 year olds to Seniors to help get them to ropeless as quickly as possible, even if its to let go for 2 seconds and they never try it again they can at least tell their friends they surfed without holding onto the rope......which is a great memory for them.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

[Germaine Marine]

The rzx3 has less of a tolerance zone then the others. It needs 5 degrees of lean at speed or it isnt clean at all. It also needs 9-9.5 degrees max of bow rise. You need to get to those with keeping the boat as neutral as possible. Ill say this until im blue in the face.. the theory or running a lot of plate to get what you need in any facet is wrong, dead wrong. Period. You should be running just enough surf plate to induce the list needed and just enough center plate to knock down the prop wash.

The reasoning behind this is simple to explain.

When you start adding surf plate and center plate in the water you induce lift to the rear of the hull. This is doing two things that arent in our favor when it comes to making the biggest high energy wave possible.

1. Its taking the hull that you added a ton of water to for big displacement, back out of the water.

and

2. The lift generated by adding plate into the water, is reducing the amount compressed energy of the water releasing off the rear of the hull.

Maybe to everyone that sounds like BS, but I can assure you it isnt. I have hours and hours with different hulls trying to see exactly what is happening boat to boat setting to setting. Can certain settings net you decent results that dont fit in that ideology? Sure. Will it be the best? No way.

Science is science. Their is still no replacement for displacement, and compressed energy is real.

Roll/speed/pitch will shape your wave. Displacement will give you the size.

When the boat is setup correctly regarding pitch/roll and total amount of displacement, all you will need is a flick of both plates for the boat to start ticking.

[Germaine Marine]

To continue... this also is why the theory of running no bow weight is flawed. Yes, you need to keep the boat at the ideal pitch and roll however, you also need to get as much of the front of the boat in the water as possible. Why? Because the more that bow is in the water, the more you are compressing the water and generating more energy. Again, all within reason. Run a boat with the plates as neutral as possible and the ballast getting the boat into the correct orientation. Then take the same boat and fill the ballast but use the plates to leverage the hull to the correct attitude. The results will be staggering....... I promise.

[UNSTUCK]

How did the boat run power wise with that much weight? You said you where dropping weight in the rear to clean it up, was it to bow high? I know we have contemplated dropping a RZX straight down with big weight, but never had the chance as of yet.

One of the things I really love about this boat is how low the bow rides while surfing (although it can get wet). While I or my wife drives, we don't need to lift the bolster seat to see where we are going. Maybe we need to be surfing more bow high? Not sure yet. As for power, I think it's great for our needs. Full ballast, PNP, and the 1000 bag full on the floor we had no issues getting up to surf speed around 11.2 to 11.5. We have not tried going faster than that yet. However, with taps 3 turned off we did go 12.5 with all that ballast once so my son could kneeboard. If I remember right the RPM's was right around 4100 and did ok. Our first trip out showed 2 hours of use and we used 11.5 gallons of fuel. I was happy with that. I'm sure this last trip will have used more with the added ballast, but we were still surfing in the low 3k's rpms. I'm very happy with this and am even thinking about moving to a 17x15 instead of the 14. Our lake is at 4200' as well.

next step is getting her comfortable with the actual wave.

She's actually pretty comfortable behind the boat. It's getting her back there that is hard, if she is having an attack. That video is literally her 3-4 water start. She did tube starts at the very end of last year. So I think she is progressing just fine. I just want her to know and feel she is safe in the boat.

The rzx3 has less of a tolerance zone then the others. It needs 5 degrees of lean at speed or it isnt clean at all. It also needs 9-9.5 degrees max of bow rise. You need to get to those with keeping the boat as neutral as possible. Ill say this until im blue in the face.. the theory or running a lot of plate to get what you need in any facet is wrong, dead wrong. Period. You should be running just enough surf plate to induce the list needed and just enough center plate to knock down the prop wash.

The reasoning behind this is simple to explain.

When you start adding surf plate and center plate in the water you induce lift to the rear of the hull. This is doing two things that arent in our favor when it comes to making the biggest high energy wave possible.

1. Its taking the hull that you added a ton of water for big displacement, back out of the water.

and

2. The lift generated by adding plate into the water, is reducing the amount compressed energy of the water releasing off the rear of the hull.

Maybe to everyone that sounds like BS, but I can assure you it isnt. I have hours and hours with different hulls trying to see exactly what is happening boat to boat setting to setting. Can certain settings net you decent results that dont fit in that ideology? Sure. Will it be the best? No way.

Science is science. Their is still no replacement for displacement, and compressed energy is real.

Roll/speed/pitch will shape your wave. Displacement will give you the size.

When the boat is setup correctly regarding pitch/roll and total amount of displacement, all you will need is a flick of both plates for the boat to start ticking.

I don't think any of that is BS. It makes total sense to me. And that explains why GSA tabs only go down a little ways, compared to Taps3. GSA wants you to get the boat weighted right to begin with. Taps3 is making it easier for the customer to get a wave without doing all the "dialing in" of the ballast first.

What does all of this mean to me right now? I have no idea! I'll make that this weekends adventure. You have told us all many times that weight needs to be added midship to the RZX3. In my mind, I imagined you wanting to add 800 of lead to the walkway cooler/storage compartment or in the observers locker and behind the driver seat. I can't get water that far forward. Well I could get it to right behind the drivers seat. So that is what I wanted to test. Adding the 1000 pounds of water on the floor, right up against the rear seat at least doubled the size of my wave.

This picture shows our wave the week before using full ballast minus some removed from the port side bow. Surf and Taps were played with but ended up around 3-4 to 4-4, or 4-3 based on your recommendations in previous threads.

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I'm now very interested in making an Enzo type bag that will run up under the seats on both sides of the boat. I'm hoping that will give me the 800 extra pounds you speak of, then I will add what I can to the bow, usually in the form of people weight.

Don't forget, I'm a complete rookie at Taps 3 and this boat. I'm trying to follow the advice that has been put on the board, but also trying to figure out what will work in our situation. All I know for sure is that messed up weight or settings or not, we had a great time last Saturday and my kids keep asking when we are going back out.

[freeheel4life]

The rzx3 has less of a tolerance zone then the others. It needs 5 degrees of lean at speed or it isnt clean at all. It also needs 9-9.5 degrees max of bow rise. You need to get to those with keeping the boat as neutral as possible. Ill say this until im blue in the face.. the theory or running a lot of plate to get what you need in any facet is wrong, dead wrong. Period. You should be running just enough surf plate to induce the list needed and just enough center plate to knock down the prop wash.

The reasoning behind this is simple to explain.

When you start adding surf plate and center plate in the water you induce lift to the rear of the hull. This is doing two things that arent in our favor when it comes to making the biggest high energy wave possible.

1. Its taking the hull that you added a ton of water for big displacement, back out of the water.

and

2. The lift generated by adding plate into the water, is reducing the amount compressed energy of the water releasing off the rear of the hull.

Maybe to everyone that sounds like BS, but I can assure you it isnt. I have hours and hours with different hulls trying to see exactly what is happening boat to boat setting to setting. Can certain settings net you decent results that dont fit in that ideology? Sure. Will it be the best? No way.

Science is science. Their is still no replacement for displacement, and compressed energy is real.

Roll/speed/pitch will shape your wave. Displacement will give you the size.

When the boat is setup correctly regarding pitch/roll and total amount of displacement, all you will need is a flick of both plates for the boat to start ticking.

Everything here makes sense. I guess there only one lingering question that nags at me from the physics of water standpoint.
In theory of all the above is true then shouldn't a guy be able to replicate the exact same wave simply with weight and no taps3 or are you saying on order to achieve listed angle without taps 3 you wouldn't have as much hull in the water?? Besides pushing the opposite corner of the deployed side into the water what else is the plate actually doing to the water??

[bsreid]

I’ll let elevated confirm this but I believe in the rzx3 you want about 3-400 in the very bow of the boat and the rzx2 likes the midship weight. Also I don’t think having anymore weight in the rear of the boat would be beneficial with the flatter hull and taps 3.

So with no weight in the bow you’re saying it was still super low? Mine was sky high before adding a bit of lead.

[Germaine Marine]

Everything here makes sense. I guess there only one lingering question that nags at me from the physics of water standpoint.
In theory of all the above is true then shouldn't a guy be able to replicate the exact same wave simply with weight and no taps3 or are you saying on order to achieve listed angle without taps 3 you wouldn't have as much hull in the water?? Besides pushing the opposite corner of the deployed side into the water what else is the plate actually doing to the water??

Taps 3 is inducing list and CRABBING the boat Sideways. It’s replicating a similar affect that you get when you lean a boat really hard to the rub rail on one side... as you know.

The difference here is displacement.

When you take a boat non Taps 3 and lean it over, it’s done so with a lot of weight on one side, which rocks the boat over onto its corner and allows the boat at an angle to sit deeper into the water. When listed only, the boat delays the convergence by the lean and slight crab and walla listed wave. It needs the max lean to induce the crab. You asked Can you get a similar wave with non taps3? My answer is that’s a loaded question.... in theory yes but it’s rather complicated.

If you list a boat over you do so with say 2k lbs of weight ish on one side. While that works awesome, realistically you are only using a certain percentage of hull in the water and realistically tapped out in terms of weight if the rail is in the water. Awesome? Most definitely, but is that smaller amount of hull in the water compressing the same amount of water and energy as say the same boat that has 5k lbs of weight? Not a chance. Weight goes further in a listed setup at the expense of a lower ceiling and miserable driving condition's

Take the same boat that we listed above, weight it even, displace 3x the amount of water, keep the hull much more flat thus compressing much more water at speed and you quickly get your answer. Taps3 and all the surf systems biggest function is still that they get the necessary crab needed to really delay convergence at a push of a button. The list via taps 3 is really just to aid in shape.

So the long answer to your question is yes but no. You could get the same wave if the boat was built to sustain the amount of list you would encounter as you displaced the same amount of water. But given those leaning hard are forced to stop at the rub rail the answer is no.

Take a taps3 boat run it at the correct orientation and do it with the ability to displace say 5-7k lbs and the listed wave cannot keep up.

The caveat is that you have to sink a taps 3 boat. If you don’t, the margin is much closer in terms of wave energy, size etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNSTUCK]

I’ll let elevated confirm this but I believe in the rzx3 you want about 3-400 in the very bow of the boat and the rzx2 likes the midship weight. Also I don’t think having anymore weight in the rear of the boat would be beneficial with the flatter hull and taps 3.

So with no weight in the bow you’re saying it was still super low? Mine was sky high before adding a bit of lead.

Under my bow seats was completely empty. I had about 100 of daughter laying down up there. I could just barely see the entire water line through the windshield while sitting in the seat normally. I actually wonder if my PNP bags are not the normal 560 pounds bags everyone else has. As I understand it, mine came directly from Tige and I heard a rumor they started with smaller PNP bags. I need to measure them.

[freeheel4life]

Ya Josh, those bags were in it when it delivered. No idea what their actual capacity is. BTW, its AWESOME to see the family out enjoying the boat.

[bsreid]

Take a picture of your bags when they’re full.