Don't drink the Kool-aid

[lee]

Let's just agree to disagree.

[freeheel4life]

Why should a boat owner take his boat to a dealership for service instead of a independent shop? They should be cheaper also. Last year we had a problem with an engine, Indmar said to send it back for an oil analysis and we did. They fixed the issue and sent the engine back.

Why can't a dealership offer a service /maintenance program that adheres to warranty policy at or near the same price as an independent shop?? Then there wouldn't be the temptation to take it to Joe's Shade Tree shop just to save a buck. Why do we have to perpetuate stereotypes like BOAT=Bust Out Another Thou or "Stealership"??
It can be done without sticking consumers and stay in in warranty.
I will maintain that oil analysis is nothing but a fancy laser that measures elements in PPM, and those results help you determine what may be happening in an engine. High amounts of chromium means plating is wearing. High Ppm of copper means plating is gone and bearings are worn down to the Babbitts etc. Also tests for viscosity and breakdown. Doesn't analyze oil formulation properties/chemicals and backtrack it to original manufacturing facility like it is CSI Miami. At least that's what I saw in the CAT oil analysis lab that I had the opportunity to hang out in.
Maybe I'm wrong and Indmar sent their oil sample to a lab that was so advanced they were able to pinpoint said engines oil back to the manufacturer that made the oil. Which if that's the case still gets us to the point that indmar proved you used an oil that they simply recommended but didn't actually formulate.
So why buy their oil?

[Germaine Marine]

Let's just agree to disagree.

This isnt a whos right or wrong thing. Just want people to understand that they dont need to buy the indmar related stuff. You had a motor issue with indmar oil it sounds like and had OA done and they fixed it no problems. We have had the same thing happen with NON Indmar Oil, same thing UA done and new crate motor sent out immediately without issue.

Just want to make sure everyone understands that....

[Germaine Marine]

Why can't a dealership offer a service /maintenance program that adheres to warranty policy at or near the same price as an independent shop?? Then there wouldn't be the temptation to take it to Joe's Shade Tree shop just to save a buck. Why do we have to perpetuate stereotypes like BOAT=Bust Out Another Thou or "Stealership"??
It can be done without sticking consumers and stay in in warranty.
I will maintain that oil analysis is nothing but a fancy laser that measures elements in PPM, and those results help you determine what may be happening in an engine. High amounts of chromium means plating is wearing. High Ppm of copper means plating is gone and bearings are worn down to the Babbitts etc. Also tests for viscosity and breakdown. Doesn't analyze oil formulation properties/chemicals and backtrack it to original manufacturing facility like it is CSI Miami. At least in the CAT oil analysis lab that I had the opportunity to hang out in.
Maybe I'm wrong and Indmar sent their oil sample to lab that was so advanced they were able to pinpoint said engines oil back to the manufacturer that made the oil. Which if that's the case still gets us to the point that indmar proved you used an oil that they simply recommended but didn't actually formulate.
So why buy their oil?

Im sure you have had the same experience Free, we have had a raptor or two go boom based on nothing more then a freak failure. We dont use Indmar stuff and Indmar had no issue with sending a crate motor out to his on the quick. They did a OA to see if any outliers were there but no issue and never a peep about what brand OIL was used.

[Germaine Marine]

I definitely think everyone should research etc just want to make sure everyone does not get warranty phobia in regards to using any oil that meets the requirements of the engine.

[freeheel4life]

The convo has veered way off from my original point. Was just trying to make a point that some "marine" markups are garbage.
Some stuff HAS to be marine grade. Starters and alternators are right there at the top of the list. The water pump in question may have been marinized with a stainless backer plate and has other internals that are marine specific to combat corrosion. Seeing as how the original part has GM castings in the aluminum I'd be willing to bet the internals are the same as the new one I get from Advanced. If some body really wants I will gut them both ( the parts house pump and "OEM" pump) on my bench and do a side by side picture fest.
Some parts are truly marine grade. Some are bolt ons from auto industry brought into marine applications. So why charge the consumer 800% markups on an auto part and just say B.O.A.T.
Sorry this turned sideways. Lee you tried to graciously back out and Jason and I are on the same page. So ya, agree to disagree.
I haven't looked back at the numbers but the same year the Raptor rolled into Tige was the same year we picked up Skiers Choice.
I don't follow our sales numbers that close but believe we have sent at least 100 Raptors out on the water in various configurations (360,400,440 and SC, no 460 yet) and havent seen a true failure so far. Have done warranty work on O2s, exhaust, cats, and other components that really all come back to meeting emissions. Had one bad engine harness on a Supra literally from the factory...would only idle. After much back and forth with Indmar and lots of Diacom recordings and multimeter results it was deemed harness needed replaced and we had it shipped next day. That's probably the worst of it so far.
Now the 8.1L (496 ci) that Indmar built and Malibu had a hard on for...theres an engine that deserves some smack talk.
Boats keep getting bigger and Indmar stuck their neck out and moved away from GM platform. It's worked so far. Keep putting good (synth blend or better) "SN" rated 5-30 oil in unless you have a 460 or SC. Do not run low octane fuels. Don't pay 800% markups on parts.

[chpthril]

Buying power has a lot to do with the markup on a part. its also very time consuming to source quality reliable dependable parts at a wholesale price that allows you to resale at a more competitive retail price. Buying power is also tied to volume. I bet one advance store sells more care LT1 pumps then that marine parts dealer sells in a season. Hard to negotiate that kind of competitive price.

Its also hard to compare the auto biz and boat biz (ive been in both). Cars are driven daily and need service daily. Boats are seasonal, but boat shops still need to eat year round. Bills like rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc, still come in the mail, even in the slow months. The marine business model has to be different from the car model. This means a different margin if needed.

[UNSTUCK]

Buying power has a lot to do with the markup on a part. its also very time consuming to source quality reliable dependable parts at a wholesale price that allows you to resale at a more competitive retail price. Buying power is also tied to volume. I bet one advance store sells more care LT1 pumps then that marine parts dealer sells in a season. Hard to negotiate that kind of competitive price.

Its also hard to compare the auto biz and boat biz (ive been in both). Cars are driven daily and need service daily. Boats are seasonal, but boat shops still need to eat year round. Bills like rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc, still come in the mail, even in the slow months. The marine business model has to be different from the car model. This means a different margin if needed.

I get all that and it totally makes sense. However, is that my problem? Was anyone forced to get into the boat business? Was there ever a dealer that was totally caught off guard by poor sales in the winter? Should I buy that $800 pump just so I can feel good about putting food on my dealers table? Winters are SLOW in my line of work too, yet no one around here seems too interested in making sure my family eats. Apples to apples, I'm going to buy from the cheapest supplier. And even if they're not comparable. I could buy a lot of water pumps from Napa for the price of this one.

[D&P Powell]

Apples to apples, I'm going to buy from the cheapest supplier.

In most cases, I would agree... but not all. The cheapest route is not always the best IMO for a couple of different reasons. Please allow me to give a couple of very good examples. 1. Cheap toilet paper. End of story. That analogy may sound ridiculous, but I have always used it because everyone automatically gets it. 2. I personally would much rather support the small business man than the corporation, as long as the small business man isn't trying to rake me over the coals. If margin is slightly higher, I will go to the small business. If said small business gives back to the community (oh, like, the West Coast Tige Owners reunion for example, LOL), then I am even MORE inclined to go that route.

[UNSTUCK]

That's true, but I'm talking about buying Charmin and then choosing to buy it from Costco or Walmart, not choosing between Charmin or "Great Value". Apples to apples. I'll buy from my local small business just like you, but not if they charge $800 for the same toilet paper I can buy just down the street for $112.

You should send these MC parts guys a reunion sponsor form. See if they'll donate a water pump.

[freeheel4life]

I'm not sure, but I had to order a prop shaft for an x35 from the MCparts depot site as I just couldn't find it elsewhere (MC used a splined shaft instead of tapered and key stock). The shipping address was Utah. I'm wondering if they are just the "retail" site for MC Salt Lake??

[D&P Powell]

Agree!

You should send these MC parts guys a reunion sponsor form. See if they'll donate a water pump.

LOVE IT!

[sandm]

amazing how the interwebs continue to change the retail landscape and the water pump is a good example of how someone 30 years ago would have paid the $800 without knowing any better and today, 30 seconds and google will yield the savings.

if you don't change with the times you will be the next kmart/sears. dealers have to create a value in what they do and my first $400 winterization at the supra dealer left me to learn on youtube to do it myself. I get that the dealer has to eat but they certainly weren't working to earn my business or try to justify the expenses(i felt like a fall inconvenience to them) and hanging your hat on "warranty will be void if you don't use us" will not go far if someone wants to challenge it with magnuson moss.

really want to support the small guy/local but at the end of the day there has to be 1)reasonable similarity in price and 2)some value in keeping it local. and also keeping in mind that those parts you buy off the internet could be coming from a small business as well that has chosen to adapt to the times so you are still supporting a small business, just someone who is much more savvy than your local guy.

just my .02...

[chpthril]

I get all that and it totally makes sense. However, is that my problem? Was anyone forced to get into the boat business? Was there ever a dealer that was totally caught off guard by poor sales in the winter? Should I buy that $800 pump just so I can feel good about putting food on my dealers table? Winters are SLOW in my line of work too, yet no one around here seems too interested in making sure my family eats. Apples to apples, I'm going to buy from the cheapest supplier. And even if they're not comparable. I could buy a lot of water pumps from Napa for the price of this one.

I think you misunderstood. its not the consumers responsibility to see that the dealer survives over winter, its his own responsibility. He needs to forecast for the peaks and valleys, not just peaks. After that, free market takes over. You as the consumer are free to patron where you see best for you.

[Germaine Marine]

Consumers are free to do as they please, just as us vendors and dealers are free to do as we also see fit. Its a 2 way street, and that street can be shared quite well if everyone remembers just that. When you start to get into "Well F it, Ill do whatever is cheapest" you start to muddy the waters. While completely within your right, it may not serve the relationship best; and in all likely hood one you might need down the road.