Taps 3 retrofit

[Germaine Marine]

Here you have a cardboard traced copy of Swell 3. Then a factory Swell 2 plate sitting right on top of that same cardboard Swell 3 plate—with the hinge running along the depicted hinge on the Swell 3 plate (hinges lined up).

Pretty much same plate. The difference is the “middle” non-articulating part of the plate, as you can see. The angle change is significant, but running surface, size, etc is quite similar.

The tester I referenced made a copy of Swell 3, mounted it and tested it on an SG. Stock weight and slammed weight, and ultimately decided to remove and revert to stock Swell 2 after the test.

He did say transfers worked better. Clean both sides level weight.


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By adding more plate you have thus added more running surface. The new non articulating pie section they added is in contact with water while in motion. The angle change and the non articulating section running off the hull is what I was referencing directly. We are seeing a big time difference not just in transfers with the changes...

Yes the articulating part of the plate is identical but now its orientation is drastically different when it meets the water as well as the plate having a non articulating section that increases the running surface.

Ive had all three in my hand. While not identical, you put the swell 2, swell 3 and taps 3 on a table. The swell 3 visually looks more like taps 3 then it does swell 2.

[Germaine Marine]

All this is very interesting info. I’m curious about the GSA system. Didn’t The German mount a GSA on his 24VE with little success? I can’t remember what the outcome of that was, whether he kept it on or removed the system.
I’m also curious as to Tige’s plate development between models. Are the taps 3 plates the same on different boats? IE: RZ2, Z3, etc... Not including the new RZX series, I’ve heard those are larger.
I’m guessing the mounting location is also key to success with any of these plates.

He had great success once we got the adequate weight in it, wave was big time.

[Germaine Marine]

German had initial struggles, then found success with adequate weight if I recall. He left the system on I believe.

I had GSA on a F24 Tomcat and had a great wave.

Most GSA customers appear to be ticked pink once they’re dialed in.

Are the RZX plates larger? I didn’t know that. 575 Just ordered a 2018 and I think he was told it’s all the same as his 2016.

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Smaller-

[dakota4ce]

By adding more plate you have thus added more running surface. The new non articulating pie section they added is in contact with water while in motion. The angle change and the non articulating section running off the hull is what I was referencing directly. We are seeing a big time difference not just in transfers with the changes...

Yes the articulating part of the plate is identical but now its orientation is drastically different when it meets the water as well as the plate having a non articulating section that increases the running surface.

Ive had all three in my hand. While not identical, you put the swell 2, swell 3 and taps 3 on a table. The swell 3 visually looks more like taps 3 then it does swell 2.

If you wanted to change the angle, you would have to make that wedge shaped piece.....I don’t see any other way to slice it. I see it less as “adding plate” and more as changing orientation. The inboard edge of the plate is still snug to the transom. In person, the actual amount of material added is remarkably small IMHO.

Your assertion originally is that there were wholesale changes to the plates and that they are now more similar to taps3 plates than 2017 Swell2 plates. They are actually almost exactly Swell2 plates but now placed at an angle. The angle I am sure resembles taps3 closely, but the plates are Swell2 plates with angle built in now.

The largest changes are in the actuator towers to accommodate the new angle.

Unless I misunderstood you? That’s what I was pointing out.

A pretty darn experienced crew did the testing. They said the goofy wave is better, and there is less list required. They also said the regular wave was very similar, again with less list. At stock weight. Then they said at slammed weight the differences became less pronounced, with transfers remaining much better and still more goofy wave cleanliness, also requiring less list.

This was all evaluated in the light of deciding whether or not to get/make Swell3 plates to replace Swell2 plates, and it was decided that the differences were not enough to warrant the expense and trouble. The tester even had new plates already made and mounted. Of course a new boat in the future would have 3.0 and would be SWEET, but changing 2.0 to 3.0 doesn’t appear to bring -quite enough- value to warrant doing the project.

That’s all. Not asserting 2.0 beats 3.0. Not at all. Just that it isn’t a major night and day change, rather a very nice refinement.


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[dakota4ce]

He had great success once we got the adequate weight in it, wave was big time.

You guys were ready to throw in the towel! 🤣
But you stuck it out. [emoji1360][emoji1360][emoji1376][emoji1376]


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[Germaine Marine]

You guys were ready to throw in the towel! 🤣
But you stuck it out. [emoji1360][emoji1360][emoji1376][emoji1376]


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It took a lot of weight to wake that thing up. Prob more then that thing could run for prolonged periods.. imo. But with that big weight it was big. Then he sold it. Lol


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[dakota4ce]

Wonder where it is these days...


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[Germaine Marine]

Wonder where it is these days...


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We sold it too a local guy in PHX. So its close.

[Germaine Marine]

If you wanted to change the angle, you would have to make that wedge shaped piece.....I don’t see any other way to slice it. I see it less as “adding plate” and more as changing orientation. The inboard edge of the plate is still snug to the transom. In person, the actual amount of material added is remarkably small IMHO.

Your assertion originally is that there were wholesale changes to the plates and that they are now more similar to taps3 plates than 2017 Swell2 plates. They are actually almost exactly Swell2 plates but now placed at an angle. The angle I am sure resembles taps3 closely, but the plates are Swell2 plates with angle built in now.

The largest changes are in the actuator towers to accommodate the new angle.

Unless I misunderstood you? That’s what I was pointing out.

A pretty darn experienced crew did the testing. They said the goofy wave is better, and there is less list required. They also said the regular wave was very similar, again with less list. At stock weight. Then they said at slammed weight the differences became less pronounced, with transfers remaining much better and still more goofy wave cleanliness, also requiring less list.

This was all evaluated in the light of deciding whether or not to get/make Swell3 plates to replace Swell2 plates, and it was decided that the differences were not enough to warrant the expense and trouble. The tester even had new plates already made and mounted. Of course a new boat in the future would have 3.0 and would be SWEET, but changing 2.0 to 3.0 doesn’t appear to bring -quite enough- value to warrant doing the project.

That’s all. Not asserting 2.0 beats 3.0. Not at all. Just that it isn’t a major night and day change, rather a very nice refinement.


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Agree to disagree.

IMO and those around the industry that have talked post dealer meetings etc including other MFG, while the articulating shape of the plate is nearly or exactly same as previous swell systems, adding in the angle and more running surface classifies as a complete redesign, not just a face lift. The plate is functioning entirely different now. That plate articulated on a straight plane before and did so parallel to the hull. It was Supras unique plate. They now have pitched the plate in, and made it articulate off axis 4-6 inches off the hull on the outside section of the plate, replicating (While not exact) what taps 3 does so well IMO. The trailing section and shapes on a lot of these plates are somewhat similar. Taps 3 hinging at an angle off axis is what has been unique IMO.

Look, Its not a bad thing that Supra took a page out of the book from Tige, all these MFG are doing it. Hopefully Tige can take a lesson or two from Supra on running surface shape, but to say you cant see it? The system is undoubtedly performing better now however you want to quantify that. As you say, it runs better even, goofy is cleaner etc. Personally? I think the wave is better with big weight as well but I guess its just an opinion.

I think they could have redesigned the plate to be hinged at the hull like before but they didnt. Why? Because they have a blue print for what works. Especially in regards to a clean wave system. IMO, whether you think that PIE is that drastic or not its had a major effect on how that system now operates Their is a reason Tige and now Supra want the water traveling past the outside of the plate a little before hitting the deployed section.... There is also a reason why they want that plate off axis as it deploys.

Just my observations and opinion after surfing it, and speaking with people who know much more then me.

[dakota4ce]

Free, moving to a center hinged plate with more running surface with a shape more similar to taps 3 then their own design in 17 is absolutely glaring.

Ive had both plates off boats side by side, including a 17. The shape differences between 17-18 and the similarties now to tige, while not exact is pretty interesting.

Its a drastic departure from 17. And its seen in performance.

Here’s your post, hence the reactions you received. You sure do sound like you’re suggesting Supra has copied Tige, more or less almost exactly. They incorporated one design element of Tige: an angle.

It’s ok man, I really don’t give a flying sh*t, but your post did suggest that, so we reached out to suggest that the copy isn’t so blatant as you suggest.




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[dakota4ce]

Taps 3 retrofit

Here is a mission dollar question for your high powered industry Insider-ness: with everyone appreciating Tige’s angled design element, how come the RZX can’t run even weight and transfer clean side to side then?

Or better yet: can it?


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[Germaine Marine]

Here’s your post, hence the reactions you received. You sure do sound like you’re suggesting Supra has copied Tige, more or less almost exactly. They incorporated one design element of Tige: an angle.

It’s ok man, I really don’t give a flying sh*t, but your post did suggest that, so we reached out to suggest that the copy isn’t so blatant as you suggest.




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Dakota,

If I struck a nerve it wasnt my intention. Like I said early and have continued to reiterate... this is my opinion.

I said several times that it isnt an exact copy. I also referenced previous that it was not a carbon copy when talking about something else. Further, I said if you were to take swell 2, swell 3 and Taps 3 and stick them in a line, swell 3 would look more like taps 3 then swell 2. Ill continue to stand by that opinion having had the 3 tangibly in my hand to look at. To be honest, your pictures IMO.. (again my opinion only) strengthen my belief of that. Although this is a Tige site, Im not a wild brand loyalist, I even went as far to say that if Tige were smart they would take a page out of Supras book in terms of running surface design. I dont know if this is about you owning a Supra or not but I dont know if I could give a bigger compliment in regards to the brand. I'll stand by my opinion though about the plate redesign and the opinion that the mere angle change you suggest as not being a big deal.... is in fact a big deal.

Again, all my opinion. You have yours and I have mine and I am surely not expecting you to change yours.

[Germaine Marine]

Here is a mission dollar question for your high powered industry Insider-ness: with everyone appreciating Tige’s angled design element, how come the RZX can’t run even weight and transfer clean side to side then?

Or better yet: can it?


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High powered insider-ness? Silly. Lets move on.

Do you think surf plates are the deciding and only factor in regard to a boat switching cleanly? Interesting. My opinion is that they arent. Want your perfect example? RZX2. So to answer your question.... I would first have to ask you... Which RZX? Because the Rzx2/Z3 switch like a boss with the Rzx2 being probably the most stable and even switching boat I have been in. You think thats solely because of Taps3? Its not.

As for the Rzx3..... I can get that boat to switch side to side no problem is the wave maxxed? No. Clean? Yes...... and I can provide evidence if you would like. But I dont think thats what you are after.

Sooo many factors, running surface, prop size, how the boat is weighted from the factory in terms of batteries etc..... I learn something new every day im in these boats, I keep a notebook because I think its one big fat happy changing equation. Anyone who says there is one way to do something and one guy who knows all is full of ****. Again all my opinion.

[dakota4ce]

No no no, I know its not the only factor. I was just taking exception to the copycat assertion for some reason. Just basically being a forum troll to a degree.

I agree, the equation has about 47 variables in it. And I admittedly love messing with all 47 if I am able to.

[Germaine Marine]

No no no, I know its not the only factor. I was just taking exception to the copycat assertion for some reason. Just basically being a forum troll to a degree.

I agree, the equation has about 47 variables in it. And I admittedly love messing with all 47 if I am able to.

Your my favorite troll if that holds any merit.