Taps 3 retrofit

[Germaine Marine]

Stowed angle, deployed angle, tap design and tab placement in relation to the hull are all drastically important from hull to hull.

[UNSTUCK]

Ill just float this out there.....

Just slapping a plate in the water isnt the ideal way to go. I might work decent, but I truly believe you need to grab a plate that has some science behind it. Whether you buy a factory plate, or a 3rd party. Their is legit science behind the good ones.. trust me.

As for a controller, the wake logic is for speed based deployment and retraction only. It is not a multi position capable system which is what is needed for true performing system boat.

Feel free and call me and I can give you the run down on the systems that I would think about that arent even related or tied to Germaine. 714-306-3999


Stowed angle, deployed angle, tap design and tab placement in relation to the hull are all drastically important from hull to hull.

While all this may be true, you will not find a scientific study or testing performed on a 22ve. If you know of one I'd love to see it. Your post makes me think of GSA. A fantastic system, and you pay dearly for it. I have to wonder if the shape of their tabs would be what it is today if they did all their testing on a 22ve only. Maybe, maybe not. I think they did a lot of testing, but I'll just guess and say the testing was more like, "this one feels like it has more push than the old one" vs E=mc2 type stuff. I have seen no indication that anyone, even boat makers, are taking each hull shape into consideration, which you say is so important. They only have their system and use it across the line, no matter the shape of the boat. That tells me that they are not spending the money to scientifically make a surf system.

It would be nice if GSA would be willing to sell their controller separate from the whole system. It does all that you are asking. I'm not aware of another automated system that does all that, in the aftermarket. Please share with all of us if you know of others. In the meantime wake logic is great for having an automated system. If you feel you need more control over tab placement, go with the very affordable Lenco switches and driver, that will at least auto retract when the boat turns off.

[onetogofast]

What did I miss that is different between the GSA controller and the wake logic? I figured they were almost identical


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[UNSTUCK]

The main difference is adjustability of the tab. GSA lets you do that on the fly. Wake logic just sends voltage to the actuator for a specific amount of predetermined time. GSA's dial is a convenient feature to have, but in my opinion it isn't really needed and probably won't be used once the wave is dialed in. Once dialed in you will just return to that setting every time. With Wake Logic, I'm not positive, but I think you will have to go in and adjust the timer each time you want to try adjusting the tab position. So it will take longer to dial in, but once there you should be done. For both systems I'm assuming the boat is set up the same and the water, etc are the same.
I know wake logic has a manual mode to move tabs around, but I don't know if it knows to return to that spot once switched back to auto.

[Germaine Marine]

While all this may be true, you will not find a scientific study or testing performed on a 22ve. If you know of one I'd love to see it. Your post makes me think of GSA. A fantastic system, and you pay dearly for it. I have to wonder if the shape of their tabs would be what it is today if they did all their testing on a 22ve only. Maybe, maybe not. I think they did a lot of testing, but I'll just guess and say the testing was more like, "this one feels like it has more push than the old one" vs E=mc2 type stuff. I have seen no indication that anyone, even boat makers, are taking each hull shape into consideration, which you say is so important. They only have their system and use it across the line, no matter the shape of the boat. That tells me that they are not spending the money to scientifically make a surf system.

It would be nice if GSA would be willing to sell their controller separate from the whole system. It does all that you are asking. I'm not aware of another automated system that does all that, in the aftermarket. Please share with all of us if you know of others. In the meantime wake logic is great for having an automated system. If you feel you need more control over tab placement, go with the very affordable Lenco switches and driver, that will at least auto retract when the boat turns off.

Of course you wont find any testing. In what world would posting the scientific data and thus blueprint of your products success be a smart move in an industry that is very cut throat? Ill answer. No world.

I can tell you after spending hours talking with both Tige and Ryan at GSA, their is loads of hydrodynamic testing in regards to some of these plates especially the two mentioned. Hi/lo pressure scenarios and the best way to divert and help build a wave from the backside using those scenaros. Its not a gimmick.

I think you misunderstood my post or maybe I wasnt clear. I dont think exact testing is done on each hull.... why would you? The basic principals are the same from hull to hull if the science behind the plate is correct, you follow? Get the plate correct and it should function on any hull. Now some hulls will be much more sensitive to a plate that is serving a purpose with more technology IE Direct drives. Thats where I think you would really see a difference.

What I referenced in terms of hull to hull is in regards to how the plates are mounted. Im talking GSA specifically. Gsa has done big time testing in regards to not only the function and reasoning behind the hydro thruster design, but also the windows you have within the confines of each hull to install the products for them to work. Too far mounted in and the plates cant move the amount of water out fast enough, too far out and the plates cant build the specific meat and power of the wave in the ideal spot. The same goes for deployment and stowed angles.

Too much deployment and the wave looses push as you lose the effects of the design. There is an ideal range based on hours and hours as well as CAD flow testing.

After experimenting with RYAN in terms of running it on the RZX2, I can vouch behind the validity behind it.

Look no further then taps3 vs GSA. Taps 3 deployment angle is north of 37* down.... Gsa when pushing it is only 19* max. Taps 3 has no ill effects when pushing past that limit other then strain on Actuators. GSA actually has a plateau in performance to a slight drop off when we push past the recommended deployment angles.

I guess the point behind this rambling is that.....there are plates that work and ones that dont, and then there are ones that kind of work. Spend the money.

[Germaine Marine]

The main difference is adjustability of the tab. GSA lets you do that on the fly. Wake logic just sends voltage to the actuator for a specific amount of predetermined time. GSA's dial is a convenient feature to have, but in my opinion it isn't really needed and probably won't be used once the wave is dialed in. Once dialed in you will just return to that setting every time. With Wake Logic, I'm not positive, but I think you will have to go in and adjust the timer each time you want to try adjusting the tab position. So it will take longer to dial in, but once there you should be done. For both systems I'm assuming the boat is set up the same and the water, etc are the same.
I know wake logic has a manual mode to move tabs around, but I don't know if it knows to return to that spot once switched back to auto.

Having the plate be adjustable is ABSOLUTELY crucial. I dont think I need to explain why... Sometimes you can only do so much with ballast. Being able to leverage the hull into a certain orientation and have the flexibility to change that based on the live environment is imperative. Settings change all the time, after fuel burn, people positioning etc and we havent even talked about tweaking the wave for a specific individual yet. Look no further then autowake which can change the whole system on the fly. Its important. Trust me.

[UNSTUCK]

So if I end up keeping my boat, it sounds like the best scenario is to build my new system using a GSA style tab instead of a TAPS 3 tab, then use Lenco LED switches like I did on my last surf system. That would give me the very best possible outcome, covering the two most important aspects, which are tab shape and adjustability. I can pass on automation for a saving of around $3000.

I am excited about autowake, but I haven't seen a boat out there yet that can take real advantage of it. To me, autowake is not the best option if your goal is to have your boats best wave all the time.

[dakota4ce]

AutoWake 2018 is sounding like the real deal on the big Supras. The 6 pump system and draft sensor really sound like they change the way it works dramatically.

Sounds like a lot of 2017 folks don’t really make great use of it, but 2018 will be more likely to.


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[dakota4ce]

Taps 3 retrofit

So if I end up keeping my boat, it sounds like the best scenario is to build my new system using a GSA style tab instead of a TAPS 3 tab, then use Lenco LED switches like I did on my last surf system. That would give me the very best possible outcome, covering the two most important aspects, which are tab shape and adjustability. I can pass on automation for a saving of around $3000.

I am excited about autowake, but I haven't seen a boat out there yet that can take real advantage of it. To me, autowake is not the best option if your goal is to have your boats best wave all the time.

Why would you not just put goose slappers on your boat if you keep it? They work very well on deep v MBs and are dead simple. Plus -may- allow you to run lighter and help your motor/altitude/power concerns.

A GSA tab on your boat is going to thirst for 5200# + of ballast. The rewards are handsome, but it’s insane weight in that boat.


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[freeheel4life]

AutoWake 2018 is sounding like the real deal on the big Supras. The 6 pump system and draft sensor really sound like they change the way it works dramatically.

Sounds like a lot of 2017 folks don’t really make great use of it, but 2018 will be more likely to.


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I know they've made some tweaks for 18 and the 6 pump is not one I am stoked about. At least they programmed it for engine running only now (you could engage Autowake with engine off previously). I have never grabbed an amp clamp and observed amp draw on a Jabsco but know they are rated at 20amps. Whether that's just when they kick on and drop off a bit after or sustained, when Autowake kicks on all 6 to start filling an empty boat it seems like a pretty large amp draw for alternator to keep up with(120 amps) for a pretty good amount of time. Maybe I'm tripping though. IDboating can probably set it straight.
That and Supra recommends not running in combine at switch so seems like on battery is going to take all that load.

[UNSTUCK]

AutoWake 2018 is sounding like the real deal on the big Supras.

Here's my issue with a boat running autowake: Let's say, for example, my best wave is formed when I run 4200 pounds of ballast and have 8 people sitting equally around the boat. Any more weight and the wave does not seem to improve. (This sounds like the RZX2 and 3, right?) In this example 4200 is 100% full, all bags and PNP (how most people run their ballast, minus a slight adjust on the non surf side as needed). Autowake kicks in and just needs to adjust the tabs to give me the perfect boat angles. The wave is great. Now everyone wants to watch the surfer so they all crowd to the back of the boat, and mostly to the port side, where the surfer is. Now the boat is pointing straight up and listing hard to the port side. The displacement of the boat is still the same. Autowake knows it needs to adjust to get the angles right again, but it only has one choice. It starts dumping water from the rear port locker. Eventually the angles of the boat are right again, but the wave is now much smaller.
Or what happens during the next trip out when only 3 people are able to come along? Now the boat is under weight and wont perform like last time. In this case a boat with ballast capacity that exceeds what it needs would be very helpful. Like putting 1000 pound PNP's in an RZX. The ideal weight only calls for half that, but you may need them when running a small crew.

Why would you not just put goose slappers on your boat if you keep it? They work very well on deep v MBs and are dead simple. Plus -may- allow you to run lighter and help your motor/altitude/power concerns.

A GSA tab on your boat is going to thirst for 5200# + of ballast. The rewards are handsome, but it’s insane weight in that boat.

That option is still on the table. With my suckgate I know I can get a pretty good wave, so I know slappers will work well too. My best wave to date was with the suckgate and all the PNP and about half the tanks. Trim tab all the way down and a tractor prop spinning the engine about 4500 RPMs. With the prop I have now I have no chance at pulling that weight and am still running just under 4k RPM. So the boat needs the SC and then I can run all the weight I already have (5200ish). A GSA type system or slapper will cost about the same.

[dakota4ce]

The 2018 has a draft sensor—which is the key ingredient. I guess I haven’t thought about it in detail.

Or you just shut it off?


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[dakota4ce]

I know they've made some tweaks for 18 and the 6 pump is not one I am stoked about. At least they programmed it for engine running only now (you could engage Autowake with engine off previously). I have never grabbed an amp clamp and observed amp draw on a Jabsco but know they are rated at 20amps. Whether that's just when they kick on and drop off a bit after or sustained, when Autowake kicks on all 6 to start filling an empty boat it seems like a pretty large amp draw for alternator to keep up with(120 amps) for a pretty good amount of time. Maybe I'm tripping though. IDboating can probably set it straight.
That and Supra recommends not running in combine at switch so seems like on battery is going to take all that load.

Man I WISH I had 6 pumps, even if the engine has to run. The SE is not the quickest to fill or empty, and not I have plussed up my rear bags to 1280. Time for a beer, I guess.


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[freeheel4life]

The new draft sensor does seem like a great idea. Will have to see how it plays out though. New tech can always have hiccups. Do your bags have the ports to add more pumps?? I'm pretty sure you could add the pumps if so...not a cheap upgrade though. Fill times never bother me. Fill pumps are always running as soon as boat comes off the trailer. By the time driver parks and comes back down, get everyone situated in boat we are usually ready to surf as soon as we get past no wake zone buoy.

[dakota4ce]

Taps 3 retrofit

Yes I had considered adding more, but the complexity and expense kind of just turned me off. Especially in light of me keeping the boat one more year, possibly. My boat is kept on a hoist—so when we lower the boat in the water we leave the dock and could theoretically be surfing in a couple minutes, but instead we wait 12 to 14 for a fill.


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