Trailer Brakes--Please Help Me!

[Jeff T]

This weekend I fixed a slow leak I had in one of my tires. (See Tailer Question thread from last week).

First a little history--I bought a used 05 22V w/ a Dorsey trailer at the end of July. Boat was in great shape with only 35 hours on it. I am a first time boat and trailer owner. So, there are things that nobody told me, such as greasing the wheel barrings or checking the brake fluid...see below:

I after I had reinstalled the tire and while it was still up on the jack, I tried to spin the tire to give it one last look. The tire wasn't spinning very freely (but was spinning), which for some reason made me think about the wheel barrings. As it turns out, the wheel barrings were, from what I could tell, completely dry...meaning the piston was completly compressed. I went ahead and greased them until a little bit squirted back out. Concern #1: Not sure how long it had been that way and not sure If I have done any damage. None-the-less, I greased them and they should be good for a while.

As I was cleaning up and getting ready to store the boat, I looked down and it dawned on me that I should probably check the brake fluid. Again, this is something that I guess I took for granted as I haven't checked it yet. So, I got the cap off on the tongue and to my surprise, it was bone dry. Sigh... After thinking about it more...something else dawned on me. As I start accelerating from a dead stop, there is a pop, or a jerk. I was told by a friend that it was normal and I just took his word for it. Now thinking about it, I'm not sure why/how he would know. I'm now wondering if it is related to my lack of fluid, or some damage caused by the lack of fluid. It may just be the brakes releasing and completley normal, but I have no way of knowing. I'm towing with an 05 Tahoe Z71.

Being that I have never owned a trailer with brakes (or any trailer for that matter), I don't know what to do, and at this point, I'm completley lost:
-How much fluid do I put in?
-What kind of fluid do I use?
-Do I need to bleed the brakes or just fill up the resevoir?
-How do I know if the brakes have even been working and how could I check to see?
-Do you need to add brake fluid often to these trailers?

It was an eye opening day for sure. I wasn't intentionally ingnoring these issues...I just didn't know any better. I have been so focused on learning the do's/don'ts of the boat, I have failed to focus on the trailer. Truefully, I feel like an idiot and I'm fairly pissed at myself.

Just in case you are wondering, I do not have any manuals for the trailer.

Any help is absolutely appreciated.

[spharis]

Yes you need to fill and bleed the brakes. You will probably need to fill the resevoir 2 or 4 times during the process. Once it is full, check for leaks. The lines are probably still good, as are the brakes, but one of the fittings.....probably the one that goes to the flex line will be loose. That will have allowed te fluid to drain. Depending on how many miles and how much braking was done during the period it was dried out will determine if you are going to need to replace the actucator or not. You should still be OK it the actuator has some rebound to it when you tr to push it in. If it pushes in and out freely, the shock, and hardware insde are shot, in which case call Dorsey and have them send the parts. Another member, as well as me, have both redone drum brakes on our Dorsey trailers to disc and have some threads with links to product manuals that include beelding procedures on the tongue actuators. As far as the level, just pretty much fill it up to where whn you put the cap back on it, it wont spill. DOT3.

As it turns out, the wheel barrings were, from what I could tell, completely dry...meaning the piston was completly compressed.

The piston being compressed does not necessarily mean the bearings were dry. The piston type, bearing buddies, are just a pressure system to keep water out. Some consensus on them is that they do more harm than good because people have a tendency to overgrease to make the piston come out. With wheel bearing grease, it doesn't take much, usually just what is packed into them is all they ever need. The only way to tell if your bearings are bad or dry it to remove them and either repack or replace. You can do that in < 30 minutes. Are you sure what you felt was not the brake caliper frozen on the disc causing some drag? I find it highly unlikely that you would have bad bearings on a boat trailer with so few hours. If it turns out that the bearings were dry, then chances are the spindle will also have some damage. If you are lucky you will be able to buy some emory paper at the auto parts store and sand the spindle back smooth if it has some pits. If it has too many blemishes, so that it will destroy any bearings you put on it, then you will need to have a new axle or spindle put on. I really don't think this is even a possibility though, unless it was improperly assembled at Dorsey; not to mention there would have been telltale signs of bearing failure, like the wheel wobbling, crazy squealing noises, large amounts of vibration whle driving, uneven tire wear, etc. I am sure what you felt was brake caliper drag.

BTW welcome to the world of boating, and all the issues/money that go along with it.

[Jeff T]

Spharis--Thank you so much!!

You should still be OK it the actuator has some rebound to it when you tr to push it in. If it pushes in and out freely, the shock, and hardware insde are shot, in which case call Dorsey and have them send the parts.

Can/will you explain to me in a little more detail how to check the actuator and how to tell if it is shot? I know absolutely nothing about this...so my knowledge is as basic as it gets.

Once it is full, check for leaks. The lines are probably still good, as are the brakes, but one of the fittings.....probably the one that goes to the flex line will be loose. That will have allowed te fluid to drain.

What is the flex line?

Yes you need to fill and bleed the brakes. You will probably need to fill the resevoir 2 or 4 times during the process.

Another member, as well as me, have both redone drum brakes on our Dorsey trailers to disc and have some threads with links to product manuals that include beelding procedures on the tongue actuators.

Am I supposed to bleed at the tongue actuator, or at the drum? Do I need to purchase anything to do it?

Are you sure what you felt was not the brake caliper frozen on the disc causing some drag?

No...not sure at all. Again, I'm a total newbie.

then chances are the spindle will also have some damage.

How do I check this? Do I need to take out the bearings to do so, or should I look for other signs.

I did fill the bearing with grease (until it was squirting back out). Should I not worry about it, or should I pull the bearings just to check them out?

Again, thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. I can't wait till I'm on the other side of the fence and I can offer up help to someone...LOL.

[Tip]

Jeff,
I'm the other guy who recently converted my trailer brakes from drum to disk. I'm assuming you have drum brakes on your trailer. I agree with Spharis that it is not likely you've damaged your bearings yet, but it's fairly easy to check the bearings and spindle with drum brakes so I'd recommend taking the time to check them. It's quite a bit more difficult with disk brakes because you have to remove the brake caliper to remove the hub on a disk brake setup. If everything turns out to be okay then the only thing you've lost is an hour or two of your time.
Here is the link to the other thread that Sharis mentioned in his post:

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...&threadid=2433

Good luck,

Tip

[chpthril]

I put about 400 miles on my Dorsey trailer before I checked the fluid level to find it empty. I too thought the bang/clunk was normal because this was my first trailer w/brakes.

Can/will you explain to me in a little more detail how to check the actuator and how to tell if it is shot? I know absolutely nothing about this...so my knowledge is as basic as it gets

With the trailer wheels choked, push in on the 'coupling' (the part that rests on the tow ball) it should have some resistance going in and should move back out when you stop pushing.

What is the flex line?

The trailer has steel lines that run from the coupling down the length of the trailer to the axle. Then there is a rubber line from the frame to another steel line on the axle. This allows the trailer suspension to flex up and down.

Am I supposed to bleed at the tongue actuator, or at the drum? Do I need to purchase anything to do it?

YES I'll post a picture in a little bit showing what i used to bleed and how I did it. Not hard with a helper. Drum brakes should have a little 'drag' when you spin the wheel by hand, but not spin free. That is probably what you felt.

[spharis]

What they said....plus...

To check your drum brake wheel bearings:
1. Get a hammer, some latex gloves, and some axle grease (high temp), and you will need a new seal. you may want to pick up new bearing regardless. They are very cheap.
2. Jack the trailer, put it on stands, and remove the tire/wheel.
3. Using your hammer, "walk" the bearing buddy out. Tap one side until it starts to pivot out, then tap the other, go back and forth until you can knock it off.
4. Remove the cotter pin from the end of the spindle using a pair of needle nose pliers.....put it in a cup to clean. You will need to bend the legs straight to remove it.
5. Behind the pin, there will either be a castle nut or a nut cap, depending on the builder. Castle nut backs off like an ordinary nut, the other kind is a little cap, slip it off, then take of the spindle nut. Keep it to clean
6. Behind the spindle nut will be a spindle washer. It pushes uniformly on the wheel bearings. Notice that it has a tang on it, or is indexed to fit whatever type of spindle you have. This is to keep it from turning. It will slip off. Keep it to clean.
7. Grap the hub assly, and kind of walk it out. The outer bearing will likely fall off/out. grap it and put it in the to be cleaned.
8. Pull the hub assly straight out. There is a wheel/grease seal on the inside/back of the hub that will damage if you are super abusive, but it is fairly sturdy.
9. If the bearings look good, as in no parts or pieces falling out, and there are no marks on the spindle Stop here, and reassemble everything. If they look bad, or the grease looks watery, or there is sand or something continue below, and be prepeared to possibly buy some parts.
10. Pull the old seal off. It bends so just get it out however.
11. Remove the inner bearing from the hub....from the back.

Now that you have both bearings out, spin them in your hand. They should spin freely. If not, if they have some catches, or if they are not nice and smooth, inspect the spindle for grooves, and go ahead and toss the bearings away. Run down to a trailer store, and pick up bearings for your axles. ou can take the hub with you if ou think you need to, but they usually go by weight. Maybe someone else can chime in with sizes. If you cannot get them local, just leave the trailer jacked up disassembled, and put a plastic bag over the spindle to keep it from rusting overnight (we have that problem in La). Once you have your new bearings, follow below. Your bearing kit should come with 4 parts: inner bearing, outer bearing, grease seal, and new cotter pin.

If your spindle is worn, then you have a bit more work. Depending on how big of a hammer you have, or if you have a press, you can get by without purchasing new hubs. Races are the steel rings that press into the hub allowing the bearing to have something smooth to turn on. They are a b*&%h to get out, and in. You need to punch them out, and then hammer them in, or use a press. Either way, it is usually better, and faster to just buy a new hub. In most cases the races come pre-installed. You MUST replace the races if the spindle has damage, as the races are probably damaged too. Now to the spindle. While at the trailer store, or auto parts store, buy some emory paper. In most cases it is an abrasive strip that s used for sanding spindles. Looks like a short belt. Sand down the spindle spots like you would polish the toe of a shoe. Chek it for smoothness, rinse, repeat until the spindle is smooth. The slight out of round will not hurt anything, you are just removing the burs and any divots from the spindle. If it is real bad (and I mean real bad as in gouges etc) you will need to have the spindle replaced, and either need to know how to weld, or you can buy an entire new axle.

You need to clean your bearings and repack them if they are still good and can be reused. Might as well do it since you have them out. The best way is to get a small pan and put some off road diesel in it. Gert a brish, and clean them up. Spin them as you clean them to get all the stuff out.

OK....so you are back with your new bearings, cotter pin, and seal. Possibly a new hub....doesnt matter.

First lay down some kind of towel so you can set your packed bearing on it. Glove up, and squirt some grease into your palm. You need a pretty good bit, it makes it easier. Take the bearing and start to "pack" the grease into the rollers. Do so on the end, not on the rollers sides, but from the end of them, like they are tubes and you are trying to shave it into the ends. Make short quick strokes, and you will start to see the grease come out of the top. Be patient.....it takes a while at first to get the hang of it. You are basically just dragging the rollers into the grease to push the grease up through and between them.

Now your bearigns are packed you can reassemble.

Get a board....like a 2x12. Keep it handy. Put the inner bearing into the hub. Be sure to take notice of the cone shape. The smaller side goes in first. Once it is in, place the seal over the hub. Using you hammer, start to tap it in. It is too big for the hole it seems, but has a slight taper on the very tip that will get it started. Once you have it just in enough to stay, lay the board across it and whack the board. The seal will pop in....Go ahead and hammer the board until the seal is flush with the hub. I like to shoot a little grease in the hub on the backside at this time.

Back side done. Put the hub onto the spindle, and push it until it "seats"....just get it on all the way. Shoot a little grease into the hub center. Now holding it in place so you dont damage the seal, take the outer bearing and push it onto the spindle and into the hub. Push it in until it kind of seats.

Now put the washer, then the nut on and follow below:
Tighten the nut while rotating the hub the direction of the wrench. You want to kind of turn it, tighten, turn it tighten, until it starts to get hard to turn it. Once you can only turn the wheel by really trying to turn it....as in you can't just reach up and turn it, back the nut all the way back off. You have just preloaded the bearings. Now using your fingers, repeat the process. Finger tighten the spindle nut as you turn the hub. Once the hub starts to get bearing drag, snug a little more, and then stop. The hole for the cotter pin should be fully exposed, and the bearings are now set. Put the nut cap on, put the cotter pin in, and then hammer the bearing buddies back on using the board. They are a b*&^h to get centered up. I find just knocking the piss out of them makes them pop into place fairly well. if you try to tap tap tap, it takes forever. Grease the bearing buddies up.

That's it....it took me longer to type this than it takes to do the process.

[Jeff T]

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for all your help. The pics will be very helpful!

JT

[dogbert]

Just one thing to add, make sure the hub is snug when you reinstall it. I had my bearings repacked and whoever did it didn't snug one of my hubs and it actually stripped the studs for the wheel. I had to have the entire hub removed and they had to use a welder to remove the damaged stud so I could get the wheel off to change the tire. It's a good thing my tire wasn't flat when I went to change it out.

[chpthril]

Here is what I used to bleed my brakes: Mityvac hand pump. You can get these at Norhtern tool or most any autoparts store.

[chpthril]

On the end is a rubber stopper from lowes that I drilled a hole through.

[chpthril]

*CAUTION, BRAKE FLUID WILL EAT PAINT*

1) fill res. til full, have helper hold stopper in fill hole with light pressure.
2) climb under trailer to gain access to bleeder nipple. use a 1/4in drive ratchet with a 6 point socket to 'break' the bleeder loose, than use an open-end wrench for the bleeding procedure.
3) have your helper squeeze the handpump 8 to 10 times to pressurize the system.
4) while still under the trailer, slowly open the bleeder about 1/2 turn. keep open for about 3 or 4 seconds, then close.
5)repeat steps 3 and 4 a couple more times, and then check/top off fluid.
6) keep repeating 3-5 until the fluid is coming out in a steady stream, no longer spitting. it may take 5 or 6 rounds before all the air is out of that side. tighten bleeder and move to other side.
7) repeat 1 -6 on other side. top off fluid, replace cap and wash all fliud from back side of wheels and axle.

[Original Wing Nut]

Great Thread guys. I love that there is always someone on here to help. I just did a complete brake check a few weeks ago. Some advice from someone who owns six trailers and tows all the time. Always check your connection , or unconnection yourself. My son uncoupled the trailer a few weeks ago and got everything except the safety brake cable. I pulled it out to the point it broke. I had to take the whole actuator apart to fix it. So just a little advice from the guy that learned the hard way, take five seconds and look for yourself to make sure you are coupled or uncoupled completely

[Original Wing Nut]

I have found that it is much easier to check bearings annually than to fix them when bad. I have a brother that doesn't care for his things well. I have replaced whole hup in the parking lot at powell on his jetski trailer in 110" and wanting to be on the water. I have also had the experience of replacing bearings on a snowmobile trailer in a snow storm for my father in-law. As stated above I own six different trailers and one day every year I just spend the day checking bearings, brakes, lights etc... Fortunately I have avoided any problems of my own, I just need new family. My dad always used to say " Stupid Hutrs" It's now our family motto.

[dogbert]

Thanks chptril!

Matt, can we get this filed under "How-To" as "Bleeding Trailer Brakes"?

[Jeff T]

Great Thread guys. I love that there is always someone on here to help.

I absolutely agree! Thank you guys so much. I have been out of town for the past few days...that is why I haven't replied. I will be doing this on Saturday morning and I will update with the results.