R23 vs Z3 vs 'Bu 23lsv?

[cnote]

Hey all -
Long time reader, first time poster. Currently own a '08 Z1, and decided now's time to go bigger to a 23 footer. Time to crank up the wave, and it's all about displacement. My '08 Z1 can only go so far. So looking for some feedback from the forum here on your thoughts/opinions on the three i've narrowed to, based on my budget:
- '16 Z3
- '18 R23
- '13-15 Malibu LSV 23

I've looked at other brands, but having less experience on those i lean towards the ones i have ridden, and are within budget. Just want to get as much info as possible before dropping some coin on a new ride!

The old Z1 has been great for me, but the wave just doesn't have the height/length needed, and more space is desired as well. Anyways I'm a big tige fan, but been surfing behind a '17 22' Malibu VLX this summer (love that wave, and that boat... but I'll get into that later).

Based on budget i'm looking at a '16 or so (need taps 3) Z3, but color combos i want aren't on the market right now in used boats. Dealer brought up "why not a new R23" - and it fits my budget range. So i started looking at those more. Here are the major differences that i can tell, but i wanted to throw out to the forum to see if anyone has any thoughts to add here. More on the 'bu later. I'm hoping those with multi-boat experience can give me their real wave low-down. Wave performance is critical for me now that this is pretty much a surf-only boat. A little wakeboarding and cruising.

R23 doesn't have what Z3 has standard (but some can be added on):
- electric tower
- stainless cup holders
- transom remote (R23 upgradeable)
- rear camera
- raptor 400 (R23 upgradeable)

Anyone have any other ideas on differences? My dealer says basically it's the same boat without a few of the above-listed bells and whistles?

Prop - dealer puts on the acme 1235, but have seen on other forums here something about an OJ 945?

Regarding the engine - I really can't seem to find any difference in the Indmar 360 vs the 400 besieds a bit of HP and Torque, but does that justify the ~$1900?

What the 16-17 z3s have that the R's don't/can't... analog gauges. I'm really hesitant to go all touch screen... something else to break?! Anyone have any thoughts on touch-screen?

OK... so now to the Malibu. It's really about the wave. The finish and fit are great, but not better than Tige based on what i can tell. Can anyone who has surfed both waves and a lot of others give your opinion (@Ragboy?)? I do intend to surf the Z3 or the R23 for myself, but again this is all about getting as much information as possible before dropping down $80-90k.

thanks in advance!

[KoolAid]

The Z3/R23 is one of the greatest surf hulls around without a doubt. The '16 has the last year of the alpha Z tower. The first generation of the taps 3 system. '18 has two new towers that will be in the line up for a few years at least. The taps system has been updated to a swivel mount set. Both have the same size 7" screen with the '18 having the upgraded hardware and the revised lower dash. There is redundant switches in the bow storage area if the screen gives you any issues. Just some things to throw out to think about.

There is a few hardware upgrades from the 360 to the 400 and I do not recall what they were at this moment.

[duffymahoney]

First off, any reason to not go 24? I will never own a smaller boat

The BU can be a great surf hull, but takes a ton of weight, I surf a 23 LSV and 24 a few times a year and I am always disappointed in the push.

If money was no object I would buy a new centurion and that is coming from a tige lover

[cnote]

thanks for the info Kool and Duffy... good to know about the redundant switches that's reassuring if something blows out on the water.

haven't been really looking at a 24' mainly because of price, and tige doesn't make one. if MNO then i'd for sure be looking RZX3 or RZX2 with tige,a malibu 24lsv, and i've heard good things about centurion too. Surfing the 'bu 22vlx a lot this summer/ w local surf club the wave can definitely be dialed in with factory ballast, people, and lead. The wave can be a monster (length, height, & push). That said, i figured the 23lsv would be even better, and have never ridden it.

I was able to arrange a surf session this afternoon with my dealer on a tige 23 footer this afternoon... i'll report back on what i find.

[bsreid]

Malibu makes a very nice looking boat. 2013 won’t be as good, 2014 gets you the new hull, 15 gets you the new dash, most importantly the 18 you don’t have to run a bow bag. From my experience reading Malibu crew, any decent lsv wave won’t be good without it. The 24mxz is very pricey and the ones before 2017 really didn’t surf the greatest. If it were me I’d find a nice 25lsv, not much more than the 23 and way better in wave.

[duffymahoney]

I haven't surfed a brand new tige, but lots of Z3s. Never a z3 with lots of added ballast, but that being said my 24v still outsurfs all I have tried, but friends say centurion is the best out. Friends that are wakesurf pros, that probably can't say what boat they actually like.

[007]

I’ve surfed a ‘16 23 LsV. Easy to use interface, disappointing standard wave. Ok goofy wave. If you are ok with wave tinkering a little, Z3/R23 all day long for me. So much more potential in the Tige hull.

[cnote]

great feedback all, thanks a lot. was a little disappointed today in my test run in a '17 Z3, but it was just me and a driver. with stock ballast full? and no other weight, the wave was just so-so. Expected more, but as mentioned in another post, the Z may need some tinkering. I know it can throw a good wave (goofy for sure) because i've ridden one, but it was loaded down with 7 peeps (including a husky driver) and lots of extra lead. Love the style and finish of tige, but stock ballast as i said was underwhelming. My next test is likely to be a centurion... more to come...

[007]

Are you goofy or standard?

[007]

I have an AVX hull, so I cannot compare apples to apples, but on my Z3 I am much happier with an additional 600-800lbs on standard side if I only have a one or two people in the both.

[chpthril]

23LSV is a SWEET boat but man did the gated wave take some getting used to. Seemed way different then a listed boat, TAPS-3 and NSS boats. Huge wave with good length, but just something about the shape mad it hard to get in the groove. Id still own one, but the Z3 with TAPS-3 is awesome.

With this said, I think in a 13-15 year range LSV, one is going to be the old 3 piece design with bolt down seat bases before the change to the 2 piece hull/deck cap design. Tige went 2 piece in like 2004.

[Germaine Marine]

Ill keep saying it... taps 3 boats and any really any boats are only as good as the guy setting it up.

The z3 is a monster, and I would stack it against any trad bow boat from any maker lb for lb. Some of the new centurions can take 7k plus in total ballast... the Z physically cant take that much so its an unfair comparison. lb for lb its Tige for me.

[Langwell]

Absolutely love the z3 , have ridden a ton of malibus . The wave is as finicky as the z3 but the boat youve been on is a club boat with 100s of hours on it im sure. I asked elevated and the german how to set the z3. I took both their opinions and formed my own , set it up for your base crew and as you add people you can dump ballast. The taps system is the most customizable wave period. Beginers to advanced riders will be happy. Look into gas usage as well and the tige continues to seperate itself. Heres a pic of my z3 with my buddies g23 , as elevated said lb for lb , $ for $ , its not close.

[freeheel4life]

So I don't get out on any Malibus, juat wrench on em,so can't testify to what it surfs like. Will say if I had to choose between a 16 z3 and an 18 r23 would take the 18. Getting away from the alpha z tower as Koolaid mentioned isn't a terrible idea. Also with the 7inch screen change to R series boats in 18 you are getting same option but with more warranty on the back end(16 touch screen will be out of transferrable warranty soon).
Also not sure what engine option you are shopping on the LSV but guessing at most you are getting an Indmar m60 (l96) for those model years you mentioned. Either Tige you mebtioned is going to be a 6.2l raptor. No replacement for displacement. Prop it with a 2419 if you are going to be weighting heavy. 1235 was great 2419 on a raptor is the bees knees. If you are at elevation consider the 400 over the 360 as you mentioned you want to run heavy.

[DJ13]

I am also considering going from a Z1 to a R23 or Z3. As far as I can tell these are the differences:

Hull - the same but the through hull fittings in the R23 appear to be plastic versus chrome on the Z3
Engine - limited to the 360 and 400 (which is the base engine in the Z3)
Paint - less panel options but the same colour options on the R23 as the Z3
Interior - similar to paint - the same colour options but less panels are customizable on the R23. The interior design is also simpler on the R23 with no curved seats in the back and no recessed speaker/drink holder section in the bow.
Captains chair - limited to the Aergo - the Z Cline seems to be no longer available in 2018. There is also no heated seat option on the R23
Screen size - R23 is 7" compared to 10.6" for the Z3. The R23 seems to be the same screen and side buttons used in last years Z3. The new Z3 screen does not have physical button and is touch screen only unless you add the steering wheel controls.
Steering wheel controls - Z3 only
Chart plotter - doesn't seem to be an option for the R23?
Tower - R23 be ordered with the M2 tower (manual) or the E2 tower which is the stock tower for the Z3. The bimini on the M2 is also a different design.
FAE - both have this option available
Audio - both have the same options for tower speakers but the interior speakers on the R23 are the lower grade Wetsounds XS - 65i versus the Revo6 on the Z3
Glove box - different design on the R23
Transmission - the sales people keep telling me the 2:1 transmission is coming on the 2018 but Elevated has confirmed it is not. It is definitely coming on the RZX line.
Trailer - the R23 offers a base model trailer that is a bit simpler and cheaper that the standard r23 trailer or the Z3 trailer if you want to save some money
Surf link - available on both
Rear view camera - available on both
Ballast - the total weight is the same at 3000 lbs but I haven't been able to confirm if the bags and pumps are the exact same.

Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions! Thanks