Upgrade from 2017 Z1 to 2018 R23???

[DJ13]

Hi,

Looking for some advice. I have a nicely equipped 2017 Z1 that I like a lot but now Ihave the opportunity to upgrade to an 2018 R23. The principal reason will be to get a larger wave. I was wondering if you could give me your thoughts on:

How much better the wave will be?
What the rpms will be at surf speed (currently 3000 at 10.8 with full ballast)?
Am I going to be disapointed with the finishing of the R23 coning from a Z1?
Anything I am not considering?

Thanks!

[JohnnieMo]

I've surfed both the Z1 and the Z3. I think the difference is the "hook" in the wave. The Z1 hooks around behind you more. The Z3 wave is more straight and feels a bit longer as a result. I'm not sure if it is longer or not.... it may be.

I'm not sure if TAPS3 changes the experience at all. I am comparing evenly weighted, suck gated, boats.

As for wave size, it's really a function of ballast and how deep the hull gets in the water. I think the resulting wave size would be equal just based on physics... I wouldn't upgrade with the thought of a better wave. I would upgrade if you want more space in your boat. RPM is a function of your propeller and nothing more.

[DJ13]

Thanks for that. With the R23 I think I could run more ballast (its 600lbs more stock). At 200 lbs surfing skim style on the Z1 I am pretty close to the boat. Doesn't the length of the boat affect wave length as well?

[JohnnieMo]

Thanks for that. With the R23 I think I could run more ballast (its 600lbs more stock). At 200 lbs surfing skim style on the Z1 I am pretty close to the boat. Doesn't the length of the boat affect wave length as well?

A 23 footer will require more ballast to get the hull as deep in the water. I'm not convinced a bigger boat with more ballast is going to get you a taller wave than a 21 footer with a bit less ballast. The critical measurement is how deep the transom is in the water. One thing for sure, a bigger boat needs more fuel

I think the length of the boat will affect the length of the wave... however I'm not sure 21 to 23 will make a substantial difference. Going from 20 to 25 would be more noticeable.

I'd like to hear more guys weigh in on this. There are so many variables in this equation that it is hard to test. I've tried and failed. The best I can say is that the extra 2 feet is a bigger deal for other reasons.

What ballast are you running on your Z1 now?

[SONIC]

Personally I'd play with additional ballast placement, speed etc to get the wave you want.
Adding ballast up front will lengthen the wave on some hulls, dunno about the Z1

[UNSTUCK]

Lake mead was our last trip out. We discovered that 13mph is FUN. The next day we found out that Jason, in his RZX2, runs at that speed as well. I hope that speed is the limit. I don't want to go much faster, but I did take away that our 10.5, then 11.2 mph just wasn't fast enough. Sink the boat and speed up! And do all that with the smallest boat that will fit your group.
Altitude, weight, speed, HP, and gearing will all play when choosing the right prop/right RPM.

[D&P Powell]

We have a Z1 and have spent quite a bit of time behind elevatedconcept's Z3, thegerman618's Z3, and a little bit of time behind elevatedconcepts new RZX2. We love our Z1, but there really is no comparison in my eyes. The Z3 wave is substantially longer and cleaner. The RZX2 is in another category all it's own. Disclaimer though - we have a 2014 Z1 with the VX. We may be talking apples to oranges since you have Taps 3. I would recommend surfing behind a dialed in (extremely important in my opinion, as some dont have theirs dialed in yet) Z3 with Taps 3 for the most accurate assessment/comparison. That would really help with your decision. It's my understanding the fit and finish differences between the R23 and Z3 include no cross stitching, and differences in the dash console.

[freeheel4life]

Can't remember for sure as we don't have an r23 on the lot but on R20 and R21 the spotter seat doesn't come up as one piece on gas shocks. Back swing open towards walkthru, and bottom lifts up and out. I actually like it more as you can store items under butt cushion that you don't need quick access too and store regularly accessed items behind spotters backrest. Also I don't think that you can get the rear facing seat on an r23 vs a z3, but can't remember. You still get the same 2 doors at bow that swing open. You would also get the trashcan pillar added behind drivers seat so you are getting more space, and a trashcan as a bonus. Only other real noticeable finish difference is The seats don't wrap all the way around in rear corners. The r23 we sold this summer should come thru for wint here soon so could take some pics if you don't have one to look at. I would gladly surf the wave off the 23' hull over the 21'. As stated above setup is pretty key though.

[DJ13]

Thanks guys. It is a tough decision given the Z1 is so new. Great tips on the differences between models - I also noticed the cup holder on the R's are plastic versus stainless and no option to upgrade to heated seats. With respect to the wave it is the biggest tempatation. I don't mind downgrading the finishing to facilitate the a better wave. Thanks D&P for your comments, it sounds like the difference in wave is significant.

[JohnnieMo]

Thanks guys. It is a tough decision given the Z1 is so new. Great tips on the differences between models - I also noticed the cup holder on the R's are plastic versus stainless and no option to upgrade to heated seats. With respect to the wave it is the biggest tempatation. I don't mind downgrading the finishing to facilitate the a better wave. Thanks D&P for your comments, it sounds like the difference in wave is significant.

Are you convinced you have fully dialed in your Z1? I would make sure you have that at its best first. I am 4 years in and still getting a better wave each and every year.

[bsreid]

If I were you I would be looking for a used 2016 z3 with taps 3. That way you get all the options for the same price as the r23

[Germaine Marine]

2018 r23 is essentially a 17z3 especially if you order it with the e2.

In 18 Tige added some cross stitching in. They also cleaned up the dash and added the phone holder etc.

The R23 now has the Full size TT2, so in my mind I don’t know if there is a better value.

Tige also updated the color and interior base options, you can get it pretty radical.

That’s the boat I would go and it’s not close.

[Germaine Marine]

We have a Z1 and have spent quite a bit of time behind elevatedconcept's Z3, thegerman618's Z3, and a little bit of time behind elevatedconcepts new RZX2. We love our Z1, but there really is no comparison in my eyes. The Z3 wave is substantially longer and cleaner. The RZX2 is in another category all it's own. Disclaimer though - we have a 2014 Z1 with the VX. We may be talking apples to oranges since you have Taps 3. I would recommend surfing behind a dialed in (extremely important in my opinion, as some dont have theirs dialed in yet) Z3 with Taps 3 for the most accurate assessment/comparison. That would really help with your decision. It's my understanding the fit and finish differences between the R23 and Z3 include no cross stitching, and differences in the dash console.

Your wave is awesome stop being so modest.

All of these boats do a little something different. The rzx line for example...while it can produce a clean wave for its size and
Mass, it just won’t ever roll water off the same as the z. The difference is the rzx is moving a lot more water and it’s able to do it without losing anything way up into the speed range which translates into a wave with firmness and power that is Fantastic .

[DJ13]

Thanks for all the info. I have loaded up the spec on the R23 so it would be pretty nice just missing the heated seats and guages on my Z1.

For surfing I am running full ballast at 10.8mph and Taps 3 at 7 and Taps at 3. When I am short on people I add 375 pound fat sacks under each side seat. Any tips?

[DJ13]

2018 r23 is essentially a 17z3 especially if you order it with the e2.

In 18 Tige added some cross stitching in. They also cleaned up the dash and added the phone holder etc.

The R23 now has the Full size TT2, so in my mind I don’t know if there is a better value.

Tige also updated the color and interior base options, you can get it pretty radical.

That’s the boat I would go and it’s not close.

Elevatedconcept - so would you go with a highly optioned R23 or a z3 for a little bit more. By the time I option it up it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to go Z3. I am a bit worried the resale value won't be the same on a R23