Liquid Lumens vs Shadow Caster Underwater LEDs

[BlackoutATX]

NOTE: Pics and Vids are coming through as we speak. Just wanted to get the thread up and running.

I know many have been waiting on this comparison/review. So I apologize it has taken me longer than expected. But here we go!

This is a comparison between the Liquid Lumens Pipeline and the Shadow Caster SCM-10 underwater lights. Two of each.


First of all, I’m going to explain a few things about the setup. My RZ4 has the AVX system. When I started to search for underwater lights last year, I noticed a problem. The AVX system is so large, it blocks a substantial amount of light coming from anything mounted to the transom itself. After some thinking and some help from other forum members, I came up with a solution. Mount them on the end of the AVX!. This way the lights are getting a clear path to the water with no obstruction. I used a L shaped bracket through bolted to the AVX for each shadow caster light. This setup has worked flawlessly. An added bonus was being able to change the depth of lights as the AVX moves up and down. Anyone with an AVX, I highly recommend this setup.

When it came time to do the comparison between the Liquid Lumens and the Shadowcasters, I decided to rig up a way to also place the LL on the AVX. This way the comparison is as equal as it can be. But keep in mind, both lights are mounted basically under the edge of the swim platform. So if your mounting your lights to the transom, which most are, the “reach” of the light will be different given the further back mounted location.


Now lets get down to it.


Test Setup:


The picture below shows the lights out of the water. I tried many different setups. But after more elaborate designs, this ended up being the winner. A simple 2x4 held to the swim platform by ratchet straps. This put the LL as close as I could get to the SC locations. For this test, I mounted each LL to the right of each shadow caster to ensure equal spacing of the light beams. So keep that in mind when looking at the photos/videos. The LL are off centered for this reason.


IMG_0006.jpg


Build Quality and Design:

Both products are on the high end of underwater lights, so great quality is to be expected. Both the LL and SC are built to last. Heavy and well put together. I can’t say much about the longevity of the LL. But I have never had one issue with the SC. Its also safe to say I have the SC in a setup they were probably never designed to endure. Again, they have performed flawlessly.

The SC have a protective sheathing that I have found great given my setup. The LL do not carry any such sheathing. In reality, it is probably not necessary. But its a nice feature. You can see the difference below.

IMG_0050.jpg


The light housings themselves are very different. The SC are long, but extremely thin. The LL, just the opposite. Round like any other underwater light, but protruding out significantly more. Much more than other lights I’ve seen. Again, this isn’t good or bad. But needs to be noted.


IMG_0056.jpgIMG_0054.jpg


Obviously, the LL have an extra piece of hardware, the inverter. It seems to be built well like the lights. But I would like to see some better connections, especially for the power cables. All connections are standard screw type connections. For the smaller wires its just fine. But I found it a little tough to get the large power wires screwed on tightly. The SC are simply wired straight in. Just a small complaint. Performance definitely never suffered.


IMG_0052.jpgIMG_0051.jpg


Ease of Install:

This is another area the SC are going to to get the nod simply because they lack the additional hardware of the LL. My RZ4 was already prewired for underwater lights. So the SC instal was as simple as finding the wire near the transom and making the connection. With the LL, you need to mount the inverter box near the amps as its not waterproof. Its just an extra step. Honestly, both SC and LL are very easy instals. But no doubt about it the LL require a few extra steps.


Ok, now what you really want to know. How the hell do they perform!

Color:

Anyone who's ever shopped underwater lights knows color plays a huge factor in the brightness of the light. To my surprise, the LL are a much darker blue, almost indigo, compared to the SC whitish blue. I spoke with Rob on this and he agreed a white to white would be interesting to see. So keep that in mind.

That being said, the LL are extremely bright. So much so that they light up the actual air when out of the water. Similar to a spotlight. You can see the beams in the air. Crazy.

Beam Angle:

One thing that has always impressed me about the SC is their beam angle. They truly light up water in a 180 degree beam. Probably even more than that. The light seems to really wrap around the boat. This was one aspect I was really curious to test on the LL.

The first night the LL arrived, I hooked them up and just held them down in the water. My initial reaction was disappointment in the lack of beam angle. I thought the light was too focused. Well to my surprise, when I actually got them mounted and out on the lake, they light up the surrounding water just as much as the SC, if not more. The beam I was seeing the first night was a result of me being too close to the lights and them being so bright. My eyes were washing out the surrounding light. Kind of like staring at the sun. By the way, I don’t recommend that.

The dome design of the LL is truly incredible. Light is really being distributed in all directions with a small focus on directly behind them. The shadow casters also do a fabulous, if not better job at beam angle. But they just simply can’t hang with the brightness of the LL. So this was a tough call. I think if the LL and SC had an equal brightness level, the SC would win the beam angle war. But the LL are just so damn bright. So SC probably win at equally distributing the light. But thats were it stops.


Brightness:

As mentioned above, there is absolutely no doubt the LL are the winner here. Even with a darker color. In the videos you can really see the brightness of the LL showing up as white hot light. You’ll also notice how much further back the wave is lit up with the LL. Given, both LL and SC being up higher on the AVX probably has a factor in this. But both setups are still equal. These are in fact so bright, I would recommend mounting them as far away from each other as possible. They just don’t need to be close to each other. The LL just win on all levels. The reach so far back, I really couldn’t tell where they stopped.



Pics & Vids:

All shots from inside the boat were done with my simple old iPhone 7. The aerial shots were done with a DJI Mavic Pro. I played around with the setting on the Mavic to try and get different levels of brightness. You will see in some videos, I’m adjusting the setting within the video. This gives you a better idea of each color and their brightness level. That being said, the color of the LL was just harder to pick up on film. Brightness level accuracy in the videos being about 9/10 for the SC and about 7/10 for the LL. Even these 4k videos just don’t do the lights justice.

Since its obvious which lights are the SC and LL, I’m just going to throw all the pics and vids I have here at the end. So feel free to check them all out.




I’M TAKING REQUESTS:

I’ll have this test setup on the boat tonight if anyone wants me to grab any other types of pics or videos. Just post in here and I’ll see if I can accommodate your request.


I want to thank Rob for giving me the opportunity to do this comparison. Its actually been a blast. These are both incredible products. But the nod goes to the LL here. Sorry Rob, you’ll be getting a set of Shadowcasters back.


Shadow Caster Slow From In Boat:
https://youtu.be/hBtwbcRLrM8

Liquid Lumens Slow From In Boat:
https://youtu.be/2Mgbp0EZeRA

Shadow Caster Surf Speed In Boat:
https://youtu.be/24dGNGv_o_E

Liquid Lumens Surf Speed In Boat:
https://youtu.be/CT7dDC1mkgM

Close Overhead Shot LL > SC > LL
https://youtu.be/m38tOjSoOZA

Medium Overhead Shot LL > SC
https://youtu.be/oRR8aCiq04k

Back Playing W/ Camera Settings
https://youtu.be/O4a74dT3Dgg

Side Playing with Camera Settings
https://youtu.be/ScnpjJHGI2s

Side Steady
https://youtu.be/Omi7uUftTyA



Album of Photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cClkde2Zoxvt00CH3



SC




LL




SC




LL




SC




LL

[Germaine Marine]

Great write up BlackOut.

I share the same opinion. Having seen them along with the other makes in a tank I knew what to expect somewhat but I was still surprised when I saw them on the boat. Unreal.

We mounted mine as far out as physically possible.... the result is an amazing beam of lights back 20 feet in the wave lighting the entire riding surface and face up. They really are incredible lights.

Im glad I wasnt the only one freaked out when it lit up the air. I had some dust particles and it was blinding out of the water almost like fog.....

[chpthril]

Shadow caster has been offering a trim tab mount for about 4 years, so fears if anyone else wants to do this type of mounting on their AVX.

Those type of terminals are best served with a crimp on spade, rather then trying to shove the wire under the set screw. I totally get that this was a temp setup for testing, just dont want to ding the LL for that, when a proper termination is available.

For a future revision, I would like to see a terminal block like we see on our quality marine amps. But for now, the use of a proper spade and some heat shrink is best.

I would also like to see a more robust power harness. The outer jacket not only adds protection, but it adds strain relief for the electrical conductors. May also be a good idea to wrap in a ground shield to prevent noise in and out.

Can you clarify which light is which in those first two overheads? Thanks.

[BlackoutATX]

Thanks! I agree. I've seen some bright lights in my day. But the way this lit up out of the water was crazy. I'm also totally on board with putting them as far to the outside of the transom as possible.

One aspect that I didn't test that I would love to figure out is how much power these are taking. I know my shadow casters can stay on all night and still be going strong in the morning. I'd be curious to see how much juice the LL are taking with the inverter.

[Germaine Marine]

Thanks! I agree. I've seen some bright lights in my day. But the way this lit up out of the water was crazy. I'm also totally on board with putting them as far to the outside of the transom as possible.

One aspect that I didn't test that I would love to figure out is how much power these are taking. I know my shadow casters can stay on all night and still be going strong in the morning. I'd be curious to see how much juice the LL are taking with the inverter.

Holy cow its a lot..... but its worth it lol........

I think these, motor off would stay going for a few hours if that and thats it.

[BlackoutATX]

Shadow caster has been offering a trim tab mount for about 4 years, so fears if anyone else wants to do this type of mounting on their AVX.

Those type of terminals are best served with a crimp on spade, rather then trying to shove the wire under the set screw. I totally get that this was a temp setup for testing, just dont want to ding the LL for that, when a proper termination is available.

For a future revision, I would like to see a terminal block like we see on our quality marine amps. But for now, the use of a proper spade and some heat shrink is best.

I would also like to see a more robust power harness. The outer jacket not only adds protection, but it adds strain relief for the electrical conductors. May also be a good idea to wrap in a ground shield to prevent noise in and out.

Can you clarify which light is which in those first two overheads? Thanks.

I had a forum member make me the brackets, which I found was cheaper than the trim tab kits. But they are definitely available.

I agree adding a spade connector is the right way to go about it. Its an easy purchase. But I didn't want to add anything to do this test. Just wanted to show thats how it comes when ordered. No way is it a bad mark on the LL. But something they may want to consider adding to the kit. A terminal block would be ideal. Also great points on the harness.

I've added a SC or LL to the top of each photo in the original post.

[chpthril]

9.5V @ 12V per posted specs.

[BlackoutATX]

Holy cow its a lot..... but its worth it lol........

I think these, motor off would stay going for a few hours if that and thats it.

I should also add I have 4 AGM house batteries. I defiantly don't have any power issues. But if the LL are power hungry, could be an issue for someone else.

[UNSTUCK]

If you don't have D.C. amps on your meter just keep putting in a smaller fuse till it blows. That will give you a pretty good idea of amp draw.

These look great. So if I understand it right the three different models have the same out put but at a different angle. That means if you went with the cheaper versions you would need to mount them a bit closer together so there was no gap in the middle, then you would expect to not have it so wide to the outside. Is this right?

Maybe you need to mount up the cheaper versions right next to the ones you have on the 2x4 so we can now compare them to eachother.

Nice work.

[hartattack]

What model of LL lights?

I know many have been waiting on this comparison/review. So I apologize it has taken me longer than expected. But here we go!


NOTE: Pics and Vids are coming through as we speak. Just wanted to get the thread up and running.


First of all, I’m going to explain a few things about the setup. My RZ4 has the AVX system. When I started to search for underwater lights last year, I noticed a problem. The AVX system is so large, it blocks a substantial amount of light coming from anything mounted to the transom itself. After some thinking and some help from other forum members, I came up with a solution. Mount them on the end of the AVX!. This way the lights are getting a clear path to the water with no obstruction. I used a L shaped bracket through bolted to the AVX for each shadow caster light. This setup has worked flawlessly. An added bonus was being able to change the depth of lights as the AVX moves up and down. Anyone with an AVX, I highly recommend this setup.

When it came time to do the comparison between the Liquid Lumens and the Shadowcasters, I decided to rig up a way to also place the LL on the AVX. This way the comparison is as equal as it can be. But keep in mind, both lights are mounted basically under the edge of the swim platform. So if your mounting your lights to the transom, which most are, the “reach” of the light will be different given the further back mounted location.


Now lets get down to it.


Test Setup:


The picture below shows the lights out of the water. I tried many different setups. But after more elaborate designs, this ended up being the winner. A simple 2x4 held to the swim platform by ratchet straps. This put the LL as close as I could get to the SC locations. For this test, I mounted each LL to the right of each shadow caster to ensure equal spacing of the light beams. So keep that in mind when looking at the photos/videos. The LL are off centered for this reason.


[ATTACH]46504[/ATTACH]


Build Quality and Design:

Both products are on the high end of underwater lights, so great quality is to be expected. Both the LL and SC are built to last. Heavy and well put together. I can’t say much about the longevity of the LL. But I have never had one issue with the SC. Its also safe to say I have the SC in a setup they were probably never designed to endure. Again, they have performed flawlessly.

The SC have a protective sheathing that I have found great given my setup. The LL do not carry any such sheathing. In reality, it is probably not necessary. But its a nice feature. You can see the difference below.

[ATTACH]46505[/ATTACH]


The light housings themselves are very different. The SC are long, but extremely thin. The LL, just the opposite. Round like any other underwater light, but protruding out significantly more. Much more than other lights I’ve seen. Again, this isn’t good or bad. But needs to be noted.


[ATTACH]46506[/ATTACH][ATTACH]46507[/ATTACH]


Obviously, the LL have an extra piece of hardware, the inverter. It seems to be built well like the lights. But I would like to see some better connections, especially for the power cables. All connections are standard screw type connections. For the smaller wires its just fine. But I found it a little tough to get the large power wires screwed on tightly. The SC are simply wired straight in. Just a small complaint. Performance definitely never suffered.


[ATTACH]46508[/ATTACH][ATTACH]46509[/ATTACH]


Ease of Install:

This is another area the SC are going to to get the nod simply because they lack the additional hardware of the LL. My RZ4 was already prewired for underwater lights. So the SC instal was as simple as finding the wire near the transom and making the connection. With the LL, you need to mount the inverter box near the amps as its not waterproof. Its just an extra step. Honestly, both SC and LL are very easy instals. But no doubt about it the LL require a few extra steps.


Ok, now what you really want to know. How the hell do they perform!

Color:

Anyone who's ever shopped underwater lights knows color plays a huge factor in the brightness of the light. To my surprise, the LL are a much darker blue, almost indigo, compared to the SC whitish blue. I spoke with Rob on this and he agreed a white to white would be interesting to see. So keep that in mind.

That being said, the LL are extremely bright. So much so that they light up the actual air when out of the water. Similar to a spotlight. You can see the beams in the air. Crazy.

Beam Angle:

One thing that has always impressed me about the SC is their beam angle. They truly light up water in a 180 degree beam. Probably even more than that. The light seems to really wrap around the boat. This was one aspect I was really curious to test on the LL.

The first night the LL arrived, I hooked them up and just held them down in the water. My initial reaction was disappointment in the lack of beam angle. I thought the light was too focused. Well to my surprise, when I actually got them mounted and out on the lake, they light up the surrounding water just as much as the SC, if not more. The beam I was seeing the first night was a result of me being too close to the lights and them being so bright. My eyes were washing out the surrounding light. Kind of like staring at the sun. By the way, I don’t recommend that.

The dome design of the LL is truly incredible. Light is really being distributed in all directions with a small focus on directly behind them. The shadow casters also do a fabulous, if not better job at beam angle. But they just simply can’t hang with the brightness of the LL. So this was a tough call. I think if the LL and SC had an equal brightness level, the SC would win the beam angle war. But the LL are just so damn bright. So SC probably win at equally distributing the light. But thats were it stops.


Brightness:

As mentioned above, there is absolutely no doubt the LL are the winner here. Even with a darker color. In the videos you can really see the brightness of the LL showing up as white hot light. You’ll also notice how much further back the wave is lit up with the LL. Given, both LL and SC being up higher on the AVX probably has a factor in this. But both setups are still equal. These are in fact so bright, I would recommend mounting them as far away from each other as possible. They just don’t need to be close to each other. The LL just win on all levels. The reach so far back, I really couldn’t tell where they stopped.



Pics & Vids:

All shots from inside the boat were done with my simple old iPhone 7. The aerial shots were done with a DJI Mavic Pro. I played around with the setting on the Mavic to try and get different levels of brightness. You will see in some videos, I’m adjusting the setting within the video. This gives you a better idea of each color and their brightness level. That being said, the color of the LL was just harder to pick up on film. Brightness level accuracy in the videos being about 9/10 for the SC and about 7/10 for the LL. Even these 4k videos just don’t do the lights justice.

Since its obvious which lights are the SC and LL, I’m just going to throw all the pics and vids I have here at the end. So feel free to check them all out.




I’M TAKING REQUESTS:

I’ll have this test setup on the boat tonight if anyone wants me to grab any other types of pics or videos. Just post in here and I’ll see if I can accommodate your request.


I want to thank Rob for giving me the opportunity to do this comparison. Its actually been a blast. These are both incredible products. But the nod goes to the LL here. Sorry Rob, you’ll be getting a set of Shadowcasters back.


Shadow Caster Slow From In Boat:
https://youtu.be/hBtwbcRLrM8

Liquid Lumens Slow From In Boat:
https://youtu.be/2Mgbp0EZeRA


Shadow Caster Surf Speed In Boat:
https://youtu.be/24dGNGv_o_E

Liquid Lumens Surf Speed In Boat:
https://youtu.be/CT7dDC1mkgM

Close Overhead Shot LL > SC > LL
https://youtu.be/m38tOjSoOZA

Medium Overhead Shot LL > SC
https://youtu.be/oRR8aCiq04k


Album of Photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cClkde2Zoxvt00CH3



SC




LL




SC




LL




SC




LL

[BlackoutATX]

These are the LL Pipeline and Shadow Caster SCM-10.

[freeheel4life]

Great write up and great pics/photos. Biggest thing to me is you answered what goes back in the box!! Thanks

[RoboSanLucas]

I didn't want to jump in the mix here too quickly and thought I would give the group a chance to weigh in on BlackoutATX's review before I chimed in. First though, hats off to Blackout for such a thorough, honest and complete review of both products. We are very grateful that you took the time to do this for us and everyone else in the community that is interested in Underwater Lights. And no need to apologize for keeping our lights... I was hoping you would return the Shadow Caster's to us.

I'll post a few individual responses to different questions that were raised, just wanted to start off with a big thanks to BlackoutATX and everyone who participated in the discussion.

[RoboSanLucas]

Interesting that you brought up the sheathing on the wires. We have never had a customer mention that before, but made the same internal decision just in the last few weeks to change over to a sheathed wire. The decision was for install's on docks and situations like your unique mounting on a bracket away from the hull where your wires will spend time in direct contact to the water. A little added durability and protection is never a bad thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RoboSanLucas]

On the subject of connectors for the wires and install kit. We have debated this internally for some time now. Perhaps I could ask for some feedback from the group as to what you would prefer to see.

We leave the wires un-terminated on one end so that whoever is doing the install can cut wires to length fore their boat. Some large boats require adding an extension to the wires. Most boats end up cutting the wires down and discarding any extra wire length.
Otherwise you could end up with a lot of extra wire to coil or store somewhere in the boat, which is messy and can be cumbersome or get in the way of gear in the boat. Not as clean and tidy as most of us like to do things.

We do normally ship product with extra connector's included in the box so that customer's can terminate their own wires once cut to length. I boxed the shipment to BlackoutATX myself and forgot to include them since I'm an amateur and the order didn't go through our normal kitting process, so I'll ship you some Blackout and you can make those adjustments to your setup for a clean install.

My question to the group is this. Would you rather receive the kit with all wires pre-terminated and ready for install, knowing that you may have excess wire length to store somewhere in your boat? Or would you rather we just include the connectors and let you add them yourself? We've considered both options and some customer feedback would help us make the best decision.