Tige 2-1 Transmission Test

[Bakes5]

Interesting. Looking forward to trying a 17" prop someday, although I'm not sure it really matters as I don't really slam it with ballast enough to care. I view the large props as a way of reducing slip and cavitation on 11K+ surf barges. Until Ski Nautique 200CB/Prostar/Response type boats move to a 17" prop I will have my doubts as to whether they are great for higher speeds.

I have found that the 15" x 14.25 pitch prop is about right for my Z3 at 4800 feet elevation. It does OK with max ballast + 600lbs and a small crew and still goes 41mph WOT of 5300. I think I will get a 13 pitch prop for my elevation prop (8400 feet).

Going from 1.5 to 2:1 is a 33% increase in prop torque and likely a 33% increase in RPM for any given speed. I hit 34mph at ~4100RPM on My Z3 with a 15x14.25 + 0.150 cup. 4100 rpm * 1.333=5453RPM...which sounds about where your WOT should be on the 400. So squeaking 34mph WOT on a 2:1, 14 pitch prop sounds about right. Probably won't hit 40mph WOT on a 2:1 unless you get to a 15 or 16 pitch prop and put some cup into the prop....but you will lose bottom end holeshot, I promise you that. Even going from an OJ 15x14 (*they don't really talk about cup) to an Acme 15x14.25 + .150 makes a noticeable seat of pants and behind the boat difference in hole shot for slalom. That said, holeshot for unweighted wakeboard, foil, skate, etc. is great.

Out of curiosity, do you have more data for your current setup?

Surf setup speed/RPM
unweighted RPM at 20mph
unweighted rpm at 25mph
unweighted rpm at 28mph
unweighted rpm at 30mph
unweighted rpm at 32 mph
WOT speed and RPM

[Germaine Marine]

Bakes the big diameter is a means to open the power band and ease strain on the motor given the strut is able to clear enough space to run the bigger props.

The bigger the diameter the better in any boat if you have power enough to spin it. Regardless of sport.




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[Germaine Marine]

Tige 2-1 Transmission Test

We aren't talking extremes here... this won't be a 44mph ski boat that can get up and spin. However that's not the point.

As you stated, you have had either had the options of tractor pull, a middle balance or mostly top end. Those have mostly been the options boat to boat.

This drivetrain took the middle
Option and added some on both ends of the spectrum. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Ski boats will never change drivetrains... why? Cause they can't surf and won't be loaded down.

Go look at what the gs24 is running... my bet is it's a 1.76/1 or a 2/1 with a big prop.

Why? Because it's just better.

Put a 2/1 with a big strut in a z3 and you have a machine. Big out of the whole and well into the 40s.

That's fact


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[Germaine Marine]

Interesting. Looking forward to trying a 17" prop someday, although I'm not sure it really matters as I don't really slam it with ballast enough to care. I view the large props as a way of reducing slip and cavitation on 11K+ surf barges. Until Ski Nautique 200CB/Prostar/Response type boats move to a 17" prop I will have my doubts as to whether they are great for higher speeds.

I have found that the 15" x 14.25 pitch prop is about right for my Z3 at 4800 feet elevation. It does OK with max ballast + 600lbs and a small crew and still goes 41mph WOT of 5300. I think I will get a 13 pitch prop for my elevation prop (8400 feet).

Going from 1.5 to 2:1 is a 33% increase in prop torque and likely a 33% increase in RPM for any given speed. I hit 34mph at ~4100RPM on My Z3 with a 15x14.25 + 0.150 cup. 4100 rpm * 1.333=5453RPM...which sounds about where your WOT should be on the 400. So squeaking 34mph WOT on a 2:1, 14 pitch prop sounds about right. Probably won't hit 40mph WOT on a 2:1 unless you get to a 15 or 16 pitch prop and put some cup into the prop....but you will lose bottom end holeshot, I promise you that. Even going from an OJ 15x14 (*they don't really talk about cup) to an Acme 15x14.25 + .150 makes a noticeable seat of pants and behind the boat difference in hole shot for slalom. That said, holeshot for unweighted wakeboard, foil, skate, etc. is great.

Out of curiosity, do you have more data for your current setup?

Surf setup speed/RPM
unweighted RPM at 20mph
unweighted rpm at 25mph
unweighted rpm at 28mph
unweighted rpm at 30mph
unweighted rpm at 32 mph
WOT speed and RPM

If all things remained the same between the boats (Prop) then yes your numbers would be correct. The 2/1 turning the same prop as you now would make for a mess.............

However..... the bigger prop shaft, and increased strut angle coupled with the massive increase in torque via the reduction change allows the 2/1 setup to run a prop (diameter wise) that for example your z wouldn't be able to fit and or even turn if it could.

That gearing change along with the fact that as you increase diameter you also increase the efficiency in which power is put to the water means a package capable of doing what I described above.


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[Bakes5]

cool. Look forward to trying them out at some point. Also, just to be clear...I don't care about 40 mph. I just like a boat that cruises effortlessly at 28-30. That means one that will run 38-40 MPH. With my 2419 prop I was hitting 30mph at 4200 RPM. With my current 2247 I am hitting 30mph at 3600 RPM. I greatly prefer cruising at 3600 RPM

[UNSTUCK]

Do all the new tiges get the 2:1 or just the RZX? Or maybe an option for the others?

What else is being done to make room for the 17" prop? Does the V-drive have a steeper angle on it? (I would think this would cause a lot of upward thrust vs forward thrust) Or maybe it is set forward further so the shaft angle stays the same? This would be ideal. But it would necessitate a new through hole location, further to the front of the boat. So if that was the case then it would make it hard to have it as an option because both transmission setups would have a different through hole location. In reality it probably doesn't take much adjustment to make 1 more inch of clearance at the prop. Maybe nothing changes.

[Germaine Marine]

cool. Look forward to trying them out at some point. Also, just to be clear...I don't care about 40 mph. I just like a boat that cruises effortlessly at 28-30. That means one that will run 38-40 MPH. With my 2419 prop I was hitting 30mph at 4200 RPM. With my current 2247 I am hitting 30mph at 3600 RPM. I greatly prefer cruising at 3600 RPM

I totally agree, and I think so does the market. Hence the change to the 2/1 with the change in strut and shaft angle allowing for a big wheel. A boat that can cruise efficiently and haul big weight is what the market is after. Again, the only way to get there especially with the non SC motors is with the 2/1.

[CarFanatic]

so the rzx 2 and 3 have 2:1 ratio's?

[Germaine Marine]

Do all the new tiges get the 2:1 or just the RZX? Or maybe an option for the others?

What else is being done to make room for the 17" prop? Does the V-drive have a steeper angle on it? (I would think this would cause a lot of upward thrust vs forward thrust) Or maybe it is set forward further so the shaft angle stays the same? This would be ideal. But it would necessitate a new through hole location, further to the front of the boat. So if that was the case then it would make it hard to have it as an option because both transmission setups would have a different through hole location. In reality it probably doesn't take much adjustment to make 1 more inch of clearance at the prop. Maybe nothing changes.

Yes, there is change unstuck. They changed the prop shaft from 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 they also changed the strut and angle to make room for a bigger diameter prop.

With the 1.5/1 you can run a 15 inch ish prop max. The 2/1 and strut change nets roughly a .89 inch gap between the prop blade and hull with a 17 inch prop.

[Germaine Marine]

so the rzx 2 and 3 have 2:1 ratio's?

The Rzx line has the 2/1 standard except when the boat has the Super Charged version. Although I would run the 2-1 with that as well no questions asked...

[Germaine Marine]

That is exactly what a boat manufacturer told me: The 400 and 440 are exactly the same hardware, your ~$6K buys nothing but different curves in the firmware.

Might be nice if a little cottage industry popped up to give these engines the same aftermarket "chipping" options that the diesel truck engine guys enjoy....

Most dealers can do it, the question is will they. The problem is you lose the warranty plain and simple.

Each ECU is locked to a specific block.... to my knowledge they have a .cal file memory log as well. If you have a bad ECU in a 440 or 400 indmar wants the old first before releasing a new one. They marry each specific one to the block which eliminated the ability to do a switch a roo.

As for flashing a 440 tune into the ECU.... all fine unless you have an issue under warranty. When Indmar wants to see the .cal file history they will see a flash and its game over for the most part.

[UNSTUCK]

I asked indmar about buying a 440 ecu to replace a 400. They said they don't have them for sale. Which was their way of getting around the huge mark up the dealer is asking. I then asked what there plan is then boats burn up an ecu outside of warranty... a few times. They avoided that one like the plague. If I'm dropping my own cash I should be able buy whatever one I want.

What I'd like to know is what ecu is indmar using to run these engines? Another E Controls or just maybe MEFI. Maybe ford. That would just be crazy. Then you could tune it right now all you want.

[talltigeguy]

How long would it take to see if you got some prop burn? It would seem like something that shows up many hours later, right?

Malibu has put a 2:1 in their 2018 LSV and in the M235. So 2:1 ratio is all the rage right now.

I am interested if there is much difference in the raptor torque curves vs. the PCM 450. Nautique runs a 17 X 17 prop with a 450 motor at 2700 feet and does very well with that. Surfing, I never have felt that it would run out of power. Getting from 15-20 MPH however, can be a bear with a lot of weight on top of stock. I usually cruise at 4200 RPM and 30 MPH. That feels comfortable in that boat with that prop setup.

One issue you run into with the bigger props is that the prop rotation literally pulls one side of the boat down. So it is common knowledge that you want 200 extra pounds on the port side of a G23 when wakeboarding if you want both sides to be clean.

[Bakes5]

The best 2:1 is to spend 1 day on the lake for every 2 worked. Getting an early start on the weekend.

IMG_6859.jpg

[Germaine Marine]

How long would it take to see if you got some prop burn? It would seem like something that shows up many hours later, right?

Malibu has put a 2:1 in their 2018 LSV and in the M235. So 2:1 ratio is all the rage right now.

I am interested if there is much difference in the raptor torque curves vs. the PCM 450. Nautique runs a 17 X 17 prop with a 450 motor at 2700 feet and does very well with that. Surfing, I never have felt that it would run out of power. Getting from 15-20 MPH however, can be a bear with a lot of weight on top of stock. I usually cruise at 4200 RPM and 30 MPH. That feels comfortable in that boat with that prop setup.

One issue you run into with the bigger props is that the prop rotation literally pulls one side of the boat down. So it is common knowledge that you want 200 extra pounds on the port side of a G23 when wakeboarding if you want both sides to be clean.

Prop Burn shows up pretty quick depending on use. Usually one or two wakeboard sessions or hard surf sessions and you know. Starts with some pitting, and then goes into a full fledged boil lol. We were worried at the event all biting our nails as the rzx2 came out of the water... Needless to say it was all good. I had to split but Adam at Germaine called and goofed with me for a second before saying we were fine. So... good news.


We knew we would have the rock over just didn't know the amount Tile. Your number is really close to what we noticed actually identical.

I would think the curves are within throwing distances of eachother with the Nautique being better clearly then the 400. I have few buddies in Colorado way up in elevation that are running the 17/14 on the G23 after I gave them some input... its why i choose it as a starting point for us at Germaine and to report back to Tige with. The results were fantastic both for them and for us. I am going to add some .40 thou first to this 17/14 which will essentially make it into a 17/15 but without losing much at all on the bottom. Ill report back with how it is in the next week or so. Then Ill run a 17/17 and see where we are at.