Please help on water now error code !

[chpthril]

Reading about o2 and CAT issues across many boats brands, meaning its just not an indmar or ford raptor issue, im wondering if the leaks are caused by a difference in temp related expansion/contraction between the exhaust parts? Seeing similar repeated codes on builders that use GM based blocks as well.

[ericinmich]

Yes, I agree. Cats have no place in marine engines. I'm all for cleaner and doing my part, but the simple concept of a converter is to generate heat, and the the boat engines only run around 160 degrees, as compared to automotive running at 215 & higher. I'm sure all the companies aren't happy about it just simply trying to comply with federal regulations. I wonder if there will be a way to by pass all of this stuff and have some sort of controller put in place to mimic the operation of all 4 sensors?

Agreed. But but engines now are running the same temperature as auto engines with closed cooling systems, etc. Cat converters light off at 400 to 500 degrees, and need to run at 700 or more to "convert" the CO/HC to CO2/water. The outside of the cats have to have water running through them or things will get very melty around the engine compartment... but as said, a bit of water through them and things also go bad.

So, I'm going to hold onto my '09 as long as possible!

[hcooperrn]

Are there any TSBs or official notes about this? My dealer cleared the code after hooking it up and said it ran fine, that because the fault came from the fuel system they have no reason to believe it's an O2 sensor problem. I may be rusty with fuel system programming, but if the O2 sensor got wet and has carbon or other built up, it can still work code free, it just isn't reporting an accurate value, right?


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[tigemech]

Faulty 02 sensors can cause a fuel trim code. Im assuming indmar uses a wideband 02 sensor, which will actually dictate if it should get more or less fuel. Id also be curious to see if they are running heated 02 sensors, and wonder if thats not the problem. And yes indmar did release a Service Bulletin Blaming it on running them at low rpms and heavy load. They tell you to run the boat slightly loaded about 3500 rpms to try to un carbon the sensor. They are also saying they are not warrantying carbon coated 02 sensors.

[scoot18]

Id also be curious to see if they are running heated 02 sensors, and wonder if thats not the problem.

Yes they are using heated O2 sensors, there are two sensors on each bank, pre and post cat.

[freeheel4life]

As far as I know widebands are heated but I don't believe narrowbands are. Don't think they would need to be as the just read rich, stoic, or lean. Don't quote me on that though. Not at work today so can't look at my DTC list to confirm.

[ericinmich]

As far as I know widebands are heated but I don't believe narrowbands are. Don't think they would need to be as the just read rich, stoic, or lean. Don't quote me on that though. Not at work today so can't look at my DTC list to confirm.

edit: just realized that the discussion is likely focused on just marine applications, the info below is on auto applications.

Switching O2 sensors have been heated for many years, over a decade, maybe 2. They are heated to help on engine start fast (cat) light off.

Also, on many/most auto systems, both front and rear use switching O2 sensors. Typically there is short and long term learning fuel trim learning from the front switching O2, and the rear O2 switching sensor is used to bias the "conversion" in the cats, as it should see switching as well.

I worked at an OEM and did some projects using wide range O2s for the rear sensor, but the cost and warranty issues didn't offset any benefits.

[freeheel4life]

Not sure how Indmar ECM is making LTFT decisions, but wideband o2 is Pre cat. Believe the purpose is to try and keep it running as close to perfect stoic so as not to fuel load cats in a rich condition. When these widebands are getting wet they are perceiving a lean condition and in turn trying to riches up that bank. Just what I think I am seeing based on Diacom and my knowledge of computer driven inputs and outputs. Larry(Enginenut) would be the guy to ask.

[scoot18]

I can now put pictures to what is being discussed here. Thought I was going to get my boat fixed this past Saturday but Indmar sent the wrong cat got the one for the side not exhibiting the condition. I don't have a picture of the new one but there is a very noticeable improvement to the weld on the inside edge of the flange, where both the inner and outer tube and flange meet. In the pictures I have here, the part with the issue is the elbow and cat all in one piece, you can see the rust inside the pipe just inward of the flange, this is where water is leaking into the exhaust chamber and into the manifold and getting the sensor wet. Cat assembly20170819_110014.jpgFlange area where the problem exist20170819_110024.jpgclose up showing rust where the water is accumulating20170819_110042.jpg

[scoot18]

UPDATE; here are pictures I got of the old and new CATS during replacement, you can clearly see the difference and changes they've made to the welds around the inner & outer tubes where they join at the flange. New cats installed last weekend, all good now no more DTC and alarm beeping.

Old way
7648.jpg
New way
7650.jpg