Think my new boat (2017 RZX2) is a lemon....

[utahsurfer]

Boats been dropped off and is being worked on. I don't want this thread turning into a giant crap on Tige or Germaine or anything else for that matter - I posted to get information and tips to try and get my boat up and running. Overall, this forum (especially Elevated) has been a huge help. The guys at Germaine and Tige have stepped up big time to own that this isn't ok and are working to get it fixed.

I'm a small business owner myself - I understand how rapid growth (which it sounds like Utah Germaine has experienced) can be overwhelming if all the checks and balances aren't in place. I'm hoping they continue to work out the kinks and make a great name for themselves. As I've said in other posts, problems happen and I've experienced that with other high end brands (specifically my car); what makes the difference is how you handle the problem and getting it resolved. And as of right now, I'm feeling good everything is being done to get it fixed.

Put down the pitchforks. Let's let the dust settle before calling it quits on the brand or dealership.

[Germaine Marine]

Boats been dropped off and is being worked on. I don't want this thread turning into a giant crap on Tige or Germaine or anything else for that matter - I posted to get information and tips to try and get my boat up and running. Overall, this forum (especially Elevated) has been a huge help. The guys at Germaine and Tige have stepped up big time to own that this isn't ok and are working to get it fixed.

I'm a small business owner myself - I understand how rapid growth (which it sounds like Utah Germaine has experienced) can be overwhelming if all the checks and balances aren't in place. I'm hoping they continue to work out the kinks and make a great name for themselves. As I've said in other posts, problems happen and I've experienced that with other high end brands (specifically my car); what makes the difference is how you handle the problem and getting it resolved. And as of right now, I'm feeling good everything is being done to get it fixed.

Put down the pitchforks. Let's let the dust settle before calling it quits on the brand or dealership.

Rationality is a wonderful thing. You have been awesome nico. Hope to meet you soon!

[cbath]

Boats been dropped off and is being worked on. I don't want this thread turning into a giant crap on Tige or Germaine or anything else for that matter - I posted to get information and tips to try and get my boat up and running. Overall, this forum (especially Elevated) has been a huge help. The guys at Germaine and Tige have stepped up big time to own that this isn't ok and are working to get it fixed.

I'm a small business owner myself - I understand how rapid growth (which it sounds like Utah Germaine has experienced) can be overwhelming if all the checks and balances aren't in place. I'm hoping they continue to work out the kinks and make a great name for themselves. As I've said in other posts, problems happen and I've experienced that with other high end brands (specifically my car); what makes the difference is how you handle the problem and getting it resolved. And as of right now, I'm feeling good everything is being done to get it fixed.

Put down the pitchforks. Let's let the dust settle before calling it quits on the brand or dealership.

I sure hope no one takes my comments to be negative against either Tige' or Germaine marine. Tige' has been excellent to deal with for the last 4 years I've been a customer. Germaine has also been a positive experience for me as well until the last visit. I to believe that my concerns will be addressed to my satisfaction and it will be a one time bad experience turned good. However, I work for a large new car dealership in the service department. Bad experiences in the service department will effect the sales department in a negative way. With time and patience I have all faith that Germaine's Utah location will be a match to their Arizona location for customer satisfaction!


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[majestic]

Utahsurfer-

I applaud you on how you have been patient and happy this is going the right direction for you. My 17 Z1 came from the factory with issues and needed weeks of gel touch up and still has to go back in the fall. I was at the factory when it was built and they have some work to do in the QC department. I am bought into the brand and know in the end everything will be made right. I have a great dealer for the first time in 8 years and that makes all the difference.

Great job Elevated for getting this going the right direction, your knowledge and willingness to help is a huge asset to us all.

[Germaine Marine]

Utahsurfer-

I applaud you on how you have been patient and happy this is going the right direction for you. My 17 Z1 came from the factory with issues and needed weeks of gel touch up and still has to go back in the fall. I was at the factory when it was built and they have some work to do in the QC department. I am bought into the brand and know in the end everything will be made right. I have a great dealer for the first time in 8 years and that makes all the difference.

Great job Elevated for getting this going the right direction, your knowledge and willingness to help is a huge asset to us all.

[Ewok]

The issue to me is that new boats seem to have a failure rate that is WAY too high, and we all seem to just accept that. If the auto industry can keep that rate at or below 1% then why not the boat industry? If tige is putting out hundreds of boats then they should only have 2-3 new boats in for major repairs. As of late it seems to 2-3 are enjoying every weekend on the water. That's backwards.

Here is a little info about the inboard boat industry, each boat made is literally a 1 off custom, every one. If anyone has taken a tour of any boat factory, look around and see how all the pieces are assembled, by hand. The glass is sprayed, by hand. No robots. There are going to be many variations in how things were assembled, it's just how boats are built.

To put the entire inboard boat industry in perspective, here is a quote from Trade Only Today, a boat industry publication, on 2016 boat sales:

"Sales of ski and wake boats, a rising category, rose 11.7 percent to 8,787 from 7,868 the year before, achieving the highest percentage gain among the main segments." https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2017/...50000-in-2016/

To put that number in perspective, here are how many Ferrari cars were produced in 2015:

"A filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission indicates the iconic, Italian supercar maker intends to boost volume by 30 percent to reach around 9,000 vehicles annually by 2019, according to CNBC." http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/14/f...-units-report/

Finally, Mercedes S sold 18,800 $120,000 S-Class sedans in the US in 2016.

These numbers are just a little reminder that the boat industry, and the ski/wake boat segment, is very different from the automobile industry. These boats are very labor intensive to build and there are variations and sometime mistakes made during the manufacturing process. This is why it's important to have realistic expectations of what you are getting with a new boat. Even though you are spending S-Class money on a new boat you are not getting S-Class perfect robotic manufacturing. This is why Chpthrill and many others stress the work of the dealer to inspect, rig and fix any of the problems that are not picked up at the factory. The factory QC people are obviously busy and they may catch 15 out of 16 problems from the line. I am just guessing but I would imagine there are over 25 items the QC people find and fix before the boat leaves the factory.

Now, the problems with this boat from the OP are being addressed by the dealer and I'm confident they will all get addressed. I didn't write this post to blame the OP or the dealer or anyone else who is having a problem with a boat, I just wanted to put raw numbers out there so people have an idea of what they are getting into with a new boat. The rising costs of new boats have attracted a newer segment of buyers who are accustomed to spending S-Class money and getting S-Class quality, but it's an apples to watermelons comparison, and it's just not a fair oranges. New boats will have problems and the quality of the dealer will either shine through and make a happy customer, or they will be highlighted as a dealer to avoid. Social media will make that painfully clear long into the future.

[hutcholdschool]

utahsurfer I do not know if it was you I seen at the Lindon marina on Sunday night with the metalic blue RZX but if so I was in the 05 22V. If that was in fact you keep in mind that lake is so shallow that it is tough to get any type of surf-able wave to happen. I have tried many times but it is hit and miss because of the shallow spots and overall shallow depths. I understand you had other issues but I was just throwing it out there that it could be some of the problem. If this was not you I apologize for posting on your thread.

[UNSTUCK]

Where is your data for that hypothesis? Have you surveyed new boat owners not on this forum? Have you also kept track of the "happy owners with no issues" on this site who have no reason to post? Have you obtained data from ANY sources, or is this just anecdotal evidence from your recent observations? I realize I run the risk of sounding like an arse when I say "I'm really not trying to be an arse", but I truly believe your comments above are way too speculative to even discuss any further. Additionally, if I were posting something like this, and I were in your current position, I would include a disclaimer stating that you are no longer a Tige owner. Your statement may include an unintentional bias. I'm not implying that your post is wrong, I'm simply stating that it's pretty bold and negative without any perceived effort towards the facts. My apologies to the OP for the brief hijack of this thread.

Maybe I should have explained more and I think this is certainly a great topic to discuss further in a new thread. My truck, a Ram, has an engine that seems to be failing too frequently. We are just getting numbers out that put the fail rate at about 1%. That's why I picked that number, which was too specific and I apologize. Merc over all engine failures are at .89%. Both manufacturers are ok with these numbers. So they won't do anything about it. In my opinion the only acceptible number is 0%. I would love to know what tiges acceptible failure rate is.
It is true, I am not a tige owner at this time. And I will absolutely push tige to be better in any way that I can. Hopefully every worker there reads these threads and knows that we are rooting them on to be the best. I'm sure they know that owners are not happy about missing a weekend on the water because of warranty work, I just really want them to care about that too. They may.

[Germaine Marine]

Here is a little info about the inboard boat industry, each boat made is literally a 1 off custom, every one. If anyone has taken a tour of any boat factory, look around and see how all the pieces are assembled, by hand. The glass is sprayed, by hand. No robots. There are going to be many variations in how things were assembled, it's just how boats are built.

To put the entire inboard boat industry in perspective, here is a quote from Trade Only Today, a boat industry publication, on 2016 boat sales:

"Sales of ski and wake boats, a rising category, rose 11.7 percent to 8,787 from 7,868 the year before, achieving the highest percentage gain among the main segments." https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2017/...50000-in-2016/

To put that number in perspective, here are how many Ferrari cars were produced in 2015:

"A filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission indicates the iconic, Italian supercar maker intends to boost volume by 30 percent to reach around 9,000 vehicles annually by 2019, according to CNBC." http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/14/f...-units-report/

Finally, Mercedes S sold 18,800 $120,000 S-Class sedans in the US in 2016.

These numbers are just a little reminder that the boat industry, and the ski/wake boat segment, is very different from the automobile industry. These boats are very labor intensive to build and there are variations and sometime mistakes made during the manufacturing process. This is why it's important to have realistic expectations of what you are getting with a new boat. Even though you are spending S-Class money on a new boat you are not getting S-Class perfect robotic manufacturing. This is why Chpthrill and many others stress the work of the dealer to inspect, rig and fix any of the problems that are not picked up at the factory. The factory QC people are obviously busy and they may catch 15 out of 16 problems from the line. I am just guessing but I would imagine there are over 25 items the QC people find and fix before the boat leaves the factory.

Now, the problems with this boat from the OP are being addressed by the dealer and I'm confident they will all get addressed. I didn't write this post to blame the OP or the dealer or anyone else who is having a problem with a boat, I just wanted to put raw numbers out there so people have an idea of what they are getting into with a new boat. The rising costs of new boats have attracted a newer segment of buyers who are accustomed to spending S-Class money and getting S-Class quality, but it's an apples to watermelons comparison, and it's just not a fair oranges. New boats will have problems and the quality of the dealer will either shine through and make a happy customer, or they will be highlighted as a dealer to avoid. Social media will make that painfully clear long into the future.

Spot on E.

You cannot directly correlate the cost to the expected experience. The full blown custom nature of how they are built is such a spectacle. To be honest, its amazing so many come out so beautiful.

If you were to see the amount of time that goes into merely adjusting the rub rail it would floor you.

Again, the best any dealer can do is fix issues as they come up, especially if the boat is ran and signed off on at the time of demo/delivery.

Its human nature to be excited about a new boat purchase, and purchasers myself included, eye certain things post delivery that were missed early on.

Their is no excuse for bad customer service and lack of communication. Prompt and upfront updates of even troubling or delaying news goes a long way. I think everyone in the industry is working on this day in and day out.

[utahsurfer]

utahsurfer I do not know if it was you I seen at the Lindon marina on Sunday night with the metalic blue RZX but if so I was in the 05 22V. If that was in fact you keep in mind that lake is so shallow that it is tough to get any type of surf-able wave to happen. I have tried many times but it is hit and miss because of the shallow spots and overall shallow depths. I understand you had other issues but I was just throwing it out there that it could be some of the problem. If this was not you I apologize for posting on your thread.

Yup, that was me. I know Utah lake will not generate a sales brochure quality wave, but it's still surfable. I wondered that same thing but a buddy of mine goes out there on an older Natique (probably 10 years old) and his wave is consistently massive with a ton of push. That lake is definitely not ideal, but it's surfable for sure. But same problems happened up at Deer Creek as well.

Sounds like the dealer (and elevated) have a grasp on what they believe is wrong and are working to test and remedy the problems. I think we're headed in the right direction.

[UNSTUCK]

Here is a little info about the inboard boat industry, each boat made is literally a 1 off custom, every one. If anyone has taken a tour of any boat factory, look around and see how all the pieces are assembled, by hand. The glass is sprayed, by hand. No robots. There are going to be many variations in how things were assembled, it's just how boats are built.....

That was good information. I'm pretty sure that Tige still has a lifetime hull warranty. Is that not right? I know my 21v had one. Isn't it interesting that they choose to warranty that one part forever? Other than maybe the upholstery, which we should expect to wear out over time, the one main part they build by hand is going to last forever. That's awesome. Now, likely, every other part on the boat is outsourced and hoped to last through the 5 year warranty. I recall only hearing one suggestion that surf tabs may have been installed on a boat in the wrong position, but that's it. I don't think most of these issues people are having with their boats are "assembled by hand" issues. They are issues of vendor supplied parts that Tige only installs.
I wonder how many parts are vendor supplied on Ferrari's or Merc's? My guess is some, but not many. This gives Ferrari much greater control over their quality. Tige must assume that the Lenco actuator is going to work flawlessly, and not fill with water and short the motor out. Remember the HUGE problem Ford had several years ago with Firestone tires? Vendor supplied parts failed and gave Ford the black eye.
My point is, we shouldn't accept a certain amount of failure because an item is built by hand, or any other way, for that matter. When we accept failure as normal, whats going to keep a manufacture striving for perfection? Would anyone be disappointed if their purchased product worked flawlessly for it's usable lifespan? It's okay to expect and push for that.

[Bakes5]

Failure is normal though. Everything fails...eventually. However, decreasing the failure rate increases the competitive advantage of a product for sales as well as increases their bottom line because of fewer warrantee claims

**Unless of course we are talking about ANYTHING run by the government....think DMV offices, Medicaide, Obamacare, etc.. In which case failure is normal, there is no warrantee, the audience is captive and does not have other options, and cost cutting that leads to increased failure is encouraged because there is no down side...especially if they create fake/proxy statisitics and use shill news organizations to make everything look rosy. But I digress.

The good news is that I have been one of the lucky 2-3 who have been enjoying every weekend for the past 8 summers. My last Tige was 18 yrs old when I sold it, ran perfectly and gave us countless hours of fun on the water. The real test will be in 10 years when the tech and gadgetry begins to fail. I don't think any brand will be immune to that.

[Germaine Marine]

That was good information. I'm pretty sure that Tige still has a lifetime hull warranty. Is that not right? I know my 21v had one. Isn't it interesting that they choose to warranty that one part forever? Other than maybe the upholstery, which we should expect to wear out over time, the one main part they build by hand is going to last forever. That's awesome. Now, likely, every other part on the boat is outsourced and hoped to last through the 5 year warranty. I recall only hearing one suggestion that surf tabs may have been installed on a boat in the wrong position, but that's it. I don't think most of these issues people are having with their boats are "assembled by hand" issues. They are issues of vendor supplied parts that Tige only installs.
I wonder how many parts are vendor supplied on Ferrari's or Merc's? My guess is some, but not many. This gives Ferrari much greater control over their quality. Tige must assume that the Lenco actuator is going to work flawlessly, and not fill with water and short the motor out. Remember the HUGE problem Ford had several years ago with Firestone tires? Vendor supplied parts failed and gave Ford the black eye.
My point is, we shouldn't accept a certain amount of failure because an item is built by hand, or any other way, for that matter. When we accept failure as normal, whats going to keep a manufacture striving for perfection? Would anyone be disappointed if their purchased product worked flawlessly for it's usable lifespan? It's okay to expect and push for that.

It's ok to hope for that. But you aren't taking in the countless variables that make that the most unrealistic and rediculous expectation I have ever heard.

User operation, maintenance and countless others to name a few.

End users, let boats sit outside in the elements for days and weeks
End users tow boats down dirt roads at 90
End users spray sunscreen and use harsh chemicals on upholstery
End users climb in and out of boats with shoes and use sharp vacuum attachments regularly
End users take water in the boats... over the bow etc.

And the list goes on and on....

Your model is assuming everyone is an A Class boater in a vacuum. It's not logical.

This is a mechanical vessel operated in water... not a car on dry land.

[Thegerman618]

That was good information. I'm pretty sure that Tige still has a lifetime hull warranty. Is that not right? I know my 21v had one. Isn't it interesting that they choose to warranty that one part forever? Other than maybe the upholstery, which we should expect to wear out over time, the one main part they build by hand is going to last forever. That's awesome. Now, likely, every other part on the boat is outsourced and hoped to last through the 5 year warranty. I recall only hearing one suggestion that surf tabs may have been installed on a boat in the wrong position, but that's it. I don't think most of these issues people are having with their boats are "assembled by hand" issues. They are issues of vendor supplied parts that Tige only installs.
I wonder how many parts are vendor supplied on Ferrari's or Merc's? My guess is some, but not many. This gives Ferrari much greater control over their quality. Tige must assume that the Lenco actuator is going to work flawlessly, and not fill with water and short the motor out. Remember the HUGE problem Ford had several years ago with Firestone tires? Vendor supplied parts failed and gave Ford the black eye.
My point is, we shouldn't accept a certain amount of failure because an item is built by hand, or any other way, for that matter. When we accept failure as normal, whats going to keep a manufacture striving for perfection? Would anyone be disappointed if their purchased product worked flawlessly for it's usable lifespan? It's okay to expect and push for that.

Cheaper, Better, Faster.......Pick 2

[UNSTUCK]

Come on, work with me a little here. Of course the end user will cause failures. Please don't think I expect the manufacture to fail proof the boat from the owner. I don't. I highly doubt the OP brought this thread to life because of his boating mistakes and trying to blame tige for them, although I'm sure that happens too.

German, I could have had 2 of those 10-15 years ago. That phrase needs to be adjusted: "pick 1". And I like to surf, so Faster is out. I'll have to get back to you on the other two. Tough choice.