Z3 or 23 LSV

[dakota4ce]

And, well, I am half in the bag. That's a factor too.


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[Germaine Marine]

It does count, a lot. Its why you havent been run out of here I assume Lol.

Like I said some of your concerns have been echoed by other other people, so I totally buy into that. Certain boats arent every persons cup of tea.... But my offer will still remain. You can come out in mine any day of the week, it will be a monster and you wont get wet... I promise

[Germaine Marine]

And, well, I am half in the bag. That's a factor too.


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Lol

[Bakes5]

hmmmm....I think I need to try out the RZX2 at some point. I'd love to see how it does with 5 people on one side and me turning that direction. I do know it's a chore on the Z3. I wonder if only having 1 fin underneath is part of the reason. The flip side is that when I have 5 people on the port side and I turn right it really turns well

Anywho...the Z3 is such a great boat. Storage is somewhat limited though if you surf since the ballast takes up all the space.

[dakota4ce]

Z3 or 23 LSV

I am just very very into boats. I want them all.

SERIOUSLY. All of them.


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[Germaine Marine]

hmmmm....I think I need to try out the RZX2 at some point. I'd love to see how it does with 5 people on one side and me turning that direction. I do know it's a chore on the Z3. I wonder if only having 1 fin underneath is part of the reason. The flip side is that when I have 5 people on the port side and I turn right it really turns well

Anywho...the Z3 is such a great boat. Storage is somewhat limited though if you surf since the ballast takes up all the space.

You can come out with me anytime bakes. Ill have a 2 and 3 at the reunion as well.

[padge]

If you want a wave, go with a 247 or 25 lsv. Add 5000+ lbs and the wedge and you have a massive wave that is surfable 20ft back. Don't really have insight on the tige. Beautiful boat, but never been behind one. If you want room and storage, the biggest bu's take the cake


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[007]

Spent Sunday morning on a '16 LSV23. Very well built boat, lots of smart little design features wrapped in a traditional ski boat interior. The owners we rode with really are in more of the "push the buttons on the dash and see what it does" phase rather than "add a little weight here or there for the perfect wave" phase, so these observations are somewhat subjective because I have 3 seasons on the Z3 and have it tweaked to our liking.

We got VERY wet in the BU. I mean positively SOAKED. That said, it was 1-2 footers whitecaping in the wind, so who knew how dry I'd stay in any boat. And the wind definitely knocked the surfwave down going into it. The goofy wave looked really nice. My wife said the top edge was pretty soft and didn't have much to work with, but she enjoyed the pulls and looked like she was able to get a lot out of the wave. The standard side though just didn't shape up as pretty and frankly I just couldn't get the hang of the wave that well. I have the quad fins in my Soulcraft and I kept catching the bubble trail of the prop which I could feel slow the board down when I was high and inside on the tail end of the wave. I am not as strong of a surfer as my wife, but her wave looked much better on the goofy side.

Plug and play, the BU is a great product. Wavewise I'd take the Z3 any day/all day (biased owner comment!), but yes we have done a fair amount of experimenting and I don't think my friends with the BU have yet. I can ride further outside on the surfgate wave, but the wave isn't nearly as "pretty" and doesn't have the defined dished transition I'm used to.

The BU worked flawlessly and for those owners it is the perfect boat.

LSV23 wave after some tweaking with wedge and gate settings (check out the wind spray behind her!):
angela bu.jpg

Our Z3 Surf X AVX (camera angle helps the wave look bigger, but cleaner wave with more pronounce lip than the gate wave)
Angela Z.jpg

[dakota4ce]

There you go. So the Bu gets you wet too!

Bottom line is, test them out and test them thoroughly before you sign any paperwork.


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[dakota4ce]

Z3 or 23 LSV

The goofy wave appeared better on the 2 I rode too.
Your thoughts are very similar to mine. The boat was pretty nice, and easy.

When compared to a Z3, tough choice. I like the Bu cockpit slightly better, the helm better, but not the surfing.



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[Germaine Marine]

Goofy wave will always be better on these boats with the rotational direction..

[TeamAllen]

Goofy wave will always be better on these boats with the rotational direction..

Yeah, my son has had the idea of replacing the transmission to change the rotation of the prop. Like I said, it's just an idea and I'm sure someone else has already thought of it.

[Bakes5]

Sometimes I think we want our cake and eat it too. Never been in a ski/wake boat that did not spray when in whitecapping 1-2 foot waves at slower speeds....add ballast and frequent stops/turning around and any boat is going to get you wet. Those that know better than I state that some (older G23, etc) are worse than others but really....when it's white capping there are about 50 other things I'd rather be doing. As I mentioned, how it handles spray in whitecaps really isn't on my list of things to care about; however, others may only get out a few times a year (*yes....all you people with 5-10 year old boats with less than 300 hours) so surf no matter what.

Given your criteria: Spacious, holds own on rough water, don't care about the wake and has 10-12 people on it.....get the biggest boat you can find and enjoy it. Maybe even a 24' Cobalt or equivalent. I mean, a core reason for a towboat is to ride/surf/ski. All of that comes with compromises. If you really don't care about the wake, I infer that you really don't care about the ride/surf/ski aspect of it as much as you do the size and stability of it. Also...12 people in any 23' tow boat is cramped.

Here are my opinions. YMMV

Wakeboard Wake: 23 LSV will have a better low speed wake. I don't think there is really any dispute on that anywhere

Surf Wave: Disagreement here and there depending on the forum, but I think the Z3 will win out in the end.....apples to apples.

Slalom Wake: Wash. Both are not the best slalom wake but are completely skiable...unless the boat is loaded up. With 12 people in your boat, your slalom wake will suck on either boat. The Z3 slalom wake is pretty fun when it's just my wife driving and 150 lbs of lead ballast on the port side to even things out.

Storage: Probably a wash. You need 3000-4000 lbs of ballast to get a good surf wave these days so your probably looking at loss or storage with either. Unless you go to the RZX or G type boats, you lose storage

Handling: 23 LSV. Turns on a dime with minimal roll. Have always loved how fast and flat they turn. Z3 is fine but sure does not like to power turn sharply when unevenly weighted.
Rough Seas: Probably a wash but people say the LSV beats them up (*Flat transom?).

Motors: Same-ish drivetrain...I think. A wash for the most part

Fit/Finish: I keep sitting in Nautiques and Malibus expecting to hear angels singing but they really feel about the same as sitting in my 2016 vintage Z3. Of course Bu and Nautique owners will soundly disagree since they paid $20-50K more. All I know is that when I sit in a well cared for older boat and then my boat it's night and day. When I sit in a new Bu, Nautique or Tige one has to look around and nit-pick.

Reliability: Wash...they all have great drivetrains and are overly dependent on tech that will ultimately fail. I'm not looking forward to trouble shooting electrical gremlins in 5-10 years when parts are scarce. Go on the Nautique or Malibu forum pages and look at all the issues they have.

Bow: I like the size of the Z3 bow. Not too big...not too small. We often have 3 kids up there and I like to sleep in it when out in the cove. It does come at the cost of a slightly smaller cockpit (*but really not that much more LSV has a 8'4" port side bench while the Z3 and the GS23 both have 8' port side benches)...but really, when you have 6 kids on board, the bigger the bow the better since they won't be in the cockpit space.

Cooler: I freaking love the cooler placement in the Z3. Not sure where it is in the LSV so cannot comment. Not only is it spacious and convenient, it's doubles as a seat that is a great place to stick a cold kid or 2 (2 if they are tiny) to warm up. Put the wind dam up, close the windshield and turn on the heater and even the coldest kid is warm and smiling in about 10 seconds. I call it the recovery seat.


All in all, the Z3 and the LSV are pretty comparable. You really cannot go wrong with either.

[dakota4ce]

Good post!


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[Germaine Marine]

Sometimes I think we want our cake and eat it too. Never been in a ski/wake boat that did not spray when in whitecapping 1-2 foot waves at slower speeds....add ballast and frequent stops/turning around and any boat is going to get you wet. Those that know better than I state that some (older G23, etc) are worse than others but really....when it's white capping there are about 50 other things I'd rather be doing. As I mentioned, how it handles spray in whitecaps really isn't on my list of things to care about; however, others may only get out a few times a year (*yes....all you people with 5-10 year old boats with less than 300 hours) so surf no matter what.

Given your criteria: Spacious, holds own on rough water, don't care about the wake and has 10-12 people on it.....get the biggest boat you can find and enjoy it. Maybe even a 24' Cobalt or equivalent. I mean, a core reason for a towboat is to ride/surf/ski. All of that comes with compromises. If you really don't care about the wake, I infer that you really don't care about the ride/surf/ski aspect of it as much as you do the size and stability of it. Also...12 people in any 23' tow boat is cramped.

Here are my opinions. YMMV

Wakeboard Wake: 23 LSV will have a better low speed wake. I don't think there is really any dispute on that anywhere

Surf Wave: Disagreement here and there depending on the forum, but I think the Z3 will win out in the end.....apples to apples.

Slalom Wake: Wash. Both are not the best slalom wake but are completely skiable...unless the boat is loaded up. With 12 people in your boat, your slalom wake will suck on either boat. The Z3 slalom wake is pretty fun when it's just my wife driving and 150 lbs of lead ballast on the port side to even things out.

Storage: Probably a wash. You need 3000-4000 lbs of ballast to get a good surf wave these days so your probably looking at loss or storage with either. Unless you go to the RZX or G type boats, you lose storage

Handling: 23 LSV. Turns on a dime with minimal roll. Have always loved how fast and flat they turn. Z3 is fine but sure does not like to power turn sharply when unevenly weighted.
Rough Seas: Probably a wash but people say the LSV beats them up (*Flat transom?).

Motors: Same-ish drivetrain...I think. A wash for the most part

Fit/Finish: I keep sitting in Nautiques and Malibus expecting to hear angels singing but they really feel about the same as sitting in my 2016 vintage Z3. Of course Bu and Nautique owners will soundly disagree since they paid $20-50K more. All I know is that when I sit in a well cared for older boat and then my boat it's night and day. When I sit in a new Bu, Nautique or Tige one has to look around and nit-pick.

Reliability: Wash...they all have great drivetrains and are overly dependent on tech that will ultimately fail. I'm not looking forward to trouble shooting electrical gremlins in 5-10 years when parts are scarce. Go on the Nautique or Malibu forum pages and look at all the issues they have.

Bow: I like the size of the Z3 bow. Not too big...not too small. We often have 3 kids up there and I like to sleep in it when out in the cove. It does come at the cost of a slightly smaller cockpit (*but really not that much more LSV has a 8'4" port side bench while the Z3 and the GS23 both have 8' port side benches)...but really, when you have 6 kids on board, the bigger the bow the better since they won't be in the cockpit space.

Cooler: I freaking love the cooler placement in the Z3. Not sure where it is in the LSV so cannot comment. Not only is it spacious and convenient, it's doubles as a seat that is a great place to stick a cold kid or 2 (2 if they are tiny) to warm up. Put the wind dam up, close the windshield and turn on the heater and even the coldest kid is warm and smiling in about 10 seconds. I call it the recovery seat.


All in all, the Z3 and the LSV are pretty comparable. You really cannot go wrong with either.

Solid