Thinking About A New Boat

[talltigeguy]

I don't think Unstuck looking for a suckgate type of setup. He wants to take a step up in the world of surfing.

That's why I suggested a $50-55k 2014 F22 and add GSA. That setup would be darn hard to beat for the money.

All my opinion, and could be worth what I am charging for it [emoji23][emoji23].


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I suppose it would be worth another thread to argue it out, but delayed convergence is the same regardless of method used. They all do the same thing, and my opinion is that suck gate, surfgate, NSS, TAPS3, GSA, MC GEN 2, Ronix Velcro, all achieve the same thing. I don't really see GSA as achieving a dramatically different result compared to the alternatives. Let's start another thread so we don't blow up Unstuck's shopping experience if you feel GSA is a whole lot superior to all the others.

I just used suckgate as an example, meaning a pre-Taps 3 Z3 would be a great surf machine with whatever aftermarket delayed convergence device you choose.

BTW, my old boat is in Rapid City with my sister in law's boyfriend. Look for some yahoos in a red 24V and give them a lesson. It was Bad05's boat after it was mine.

[dakota4ce]

I suppose it would be worth another thread to argue it out, but delayed convergence is the same regardless of method used. They all do the same thing, and my opinion is that suck gate, surfgate, NSS, TAPS3, GSA, MC GEN 2, Ronix Velcro, all achieve the same thing. I don't really see GSA as achieving a dramatically different result compared to the alternatives. Let's start another thread so we don't blow up Unstuck's shopping experience if you feel GSA is a whole lot superior to all the others.

I just used suckgate as an example, meaning a pre-Taps 3 Z3 would be a great surf machine with whatever aftermarket delayed convergence device you choose.

BTW, my old boat is in Rapid City with my sister in law's boyfriend. Look for some yahoos in a red 24V and give them a lesson. It was Bad05's boat after it was mine.

I think Unstuck is looking for a surf system boat according to this thread. So his boat suggestions start with that request.

I am not arguing that GSA is superior, or arguing at all. I do take stiff exception to the assertion that all delayed convergence devices are the same and produce the same effect. In a basic sense, true. All will make an asymmetric surf wave. But the relative shape and integrity differs. I have had suckgate, slappers and GSA on my F24. Real trials on my same boat.

The thread has turned into an MB/GSA thread to a certain degree because UNSTUCK wants 70k or below. I have a kick butt suggestion that fits that category.

He could only make this happen in a couple ways--make TAPS21 for a Z3, or slap GSA onto something. All other surf system boats are too expensive, and the suck gates-Velcro skateboard ramps of the world do not offer him a "surf system" or an improvement over his listed setup. They're not all the same. Straight delayed convergence is one element, hull tilt (list) is the other. Combined, they work better than one or the other by themselves. The only devices that pull this off are TAPS3 and GSA (see: hydrothruster assembly). Gen2 tries and comes close, surfgate has no list element. Neither do all the stick on devices.

For most, the difference is not worth pursuing. But I think UNSTUCK wants the full monty.

And in the spirit of his original question, I whole heartedly suggest slapping GSA on something big enough for his crew. It will beat his $70k goal and get him to the next level.

I can certainly stand down, as I have made a very strong and overbearing suggestion for him and have overstayed my welcome most likely. I don't think it's a pure hijack, but it got drawn out a little.

In summary I am telling you, that setup would kick some serious a$$. Next level stuff.

Love you all, I am gonna go mind my business now. LOL. I do love discussing though, and of course BOAT SHOPPING, BABY!


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[dakota4ce]

Thinking About A New Boat

Darn it, I can't help myself. That 2008 24Ve that just got bumped would be a sweetheart to toss GSA onto. That boat is very close to me geographically. With that baby you would obliterate your cost goal!


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[UNSTUCK]

*Mind Blown*

Dakota, I value your input so don't go away just yet. I've read a bunch of your threads and know that you like to tinker with your boats, same as I do. I have added an F boat to my list of interests for sure. The main hang up with one of them is I'm not in love with the pickle fork front end. I love a squared off playpen. I wish the Z3 was more squared off. Overall I think my favorite boat shape is the Mojo. Does the B52 have the potential to match your F24 wave or are they totally different boats?
I just happened to run across one of your threads on the MB forum. Sounds like you have tried a few different set ups on your F24. Did you scrape all those and stick with the GSA? Or are you still testing the "slappers" or other surf enhancements? How much ballast are you running? Are you happy with that or want more or less? As I understand it, the F boats and in the hull ballast tanks and then it sounds like there may be a plug and play option for the lockers? The tanks use the gravity feed system, but then I would need to do a normal pump install for ballast bags? I love the idea of in hull tanks. The mojo uses them but I hear I may still need to fill up the lockers with bags. I wish the Z3 used them. I hear there is NO storage at all once the bags are filled.


No, I will not be using a suckgate on a $70 boat. On a $30k boat? All day long and I'd be very happy doing it. It's what we do now.


Whats your thoughts on this:

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Reduced-...ina-60707.aspx

[dakota4ce]

*Mind Blown*

Dakota, I value your input so don't go away just yet. I've read a bunch of your threads and know that you like to tinker with your boats, same as I do. I have added an F boat to my list of interests for sure. The main hang up with one of them is I'm not in love with the pickle fork front end. I love a squared off playpen. I wish the Z3 was more squared off. Overall I think my favorite boat shape is the Mojo. Does the B52 have the potential to match your F24 wave or are they totally different boats?
I just happened to run across one of your threads on the MB forum. Sounds like you have tried a few different set ups on your F24. Did you scrape all those and stick with the GSA? Or are you still testing the "slappers" or other surf enhancements? How much ballast are you running? Are you happy with that or want more or less? As I understand it, the F boats and in the hull ballast tanks and then it sounds like there may be a plug and play option for the lockers? The tanks use the gravity feed system, but then I would need to do a normal pump install for ballast bags? I love the idea of in hull tanks. The mojo uses them but I hear I may still need to fill up the lockers with bags. I wish the Z3 used them. I hear there is NO storage at all once the bags are filled.


No, I will not be using a suckgate on a $70 boat. On a $30k boat? All day long and I'd be very happy doing it. It's what we do now.


Whats your thoughts on this:

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Reduced-...ina-60707.aspx

Oh man, thats a lot of questions! Good thing I don't have JACK SQUAT to do today LOLOLOL! Not being sarcastic, seriously, I have nothing to do......well anywhoo.....

I personally did not like the pickle fork *at first*. It is aggressive for sure. However, I have truly come to like it--its distinctive and people really comment on it. Not that it matters what they say, but I have grown to like it. The very real upside is that the bow is huge. Just huge. Very squared off, like a dance floor. That you will love. I usually fill it with boards up the yin yang and a couple kids.
The B52 does have the potential, but in speaking with Ryan at GSA, it is a bit more touchy. The older generation B52 was a sweetheart hull, the new generation is just a bit finicky. However, if you went with GSA, Ryan at the company would hook you up with the absolute dialed in setup. The one you sent a link to is actually better than most, as it has the "old" rounded swim deck. The newer swim deck is squared off, digs into the wave, and pisses people off. By and large, most people are confused by that and blame the GSA, when it is the huge swim deck. The one you sent has the old switch plates for surfing--that would have to be torched off in about 3 seconds. Doesn't work very well. Also, the original MB switch controllers weren't the best either, which would also not matter with an aftermarket GSA if you put one on.

With regard to my boat and all the experiments, I tried them all. At first, I couldn't get my GSA to be super consistent. It puzzled me. So when I was intermittently mad, I would read the VERY STRONG "goose slapper" threads on the MB forum. I began to wonder if that was the more elegant solution. So, I tried the suck gate first to see if a simple delayed convergence device would prove the theory. It was inconclusive, so I built a more formal temporary goose slapper. It worked great! The wave was awesome, and I was impressed! I actually bought all the materials to strip my GSA, put on a slapper system, and run for the hills.

Then the epiphany occured. Ryan at GSA took delivery of his new F24, and I decided to mess with my setup according to his tweaking. I flattened my tabs, added bow weight, and sped up. Suddenly, the slapper wave became a distant memory. Holy holy holy crap. The wave became much much better. Game over at that point.

I run a crap load of ballast. In floors full--1200 apiece. 1100 fly highs on reversibles in lockers, full also. I used to run just that with 400# of extra lead in the cockpit during the inconsistent days. Now I am running 450-550 (lead bags) in the bow according to Ryan's formula. Boat planes MUCH better with the bow weight. Before I ran that, I kept propping down to make the boat plane, since it was so nose high. Now we are back in the realm of normal and propping more normally too.

If youre going to get the monster wave, weight is the key. Ask elevatedconcept--its the truth. I think his z3 is slammed and works amazingly. None of these boats have enough from factory, and even the people that add weight don't seem to add enough. It takes a ton of weight to do it right.

I am very very happy now. My boat makes me feel good when I surf an X23, RZX, SE450, z3 etc etc etc. Nothing better that I have been behind yet....

On an older F or B52, I would recommend plumbing in pumps and bags for rear lockers, so you can control independently. Newer boats have a plug and play option, and honestly I am not totally sure how it works. Bag sizes are the same, just not sure how drain and fill work exactly. But the infloor is Awesome. Fills in a minute. My 1100s on reversibles fill in 8-9 minutes. Its a piece of cake. My rear lockers are full of bags when we surf. To get where you need to be weight wise I see no way to avoid that. Luckily the F boats are cavernous on the interior and I have plenty of space for all my crap.

I might have missed some points--just hit me up again!

[dakota4ce]

https://vimeo.com/182293490

This is my experimental slapper wave. It was just a freaking mammoth, and I was SO CLOSE to ditching GSA. It was a little dirty yet, as I hadn't tweaked. But, I am so glad I didn't do it. Because as huge as this is, the GSA is so much more powerful.

[UNSTUCK]

So your boat doesn't have an actual bow ballast from factory? Does the factory 1200 tanks run the length of the boat? I like the idea of ballast bags over lead bags. Will a bow bag work under the seats?

Bottom line, if I get an F boat I would need to install a full ballast system on top of the factory system? 1100 pound bags in each rear locker and a 550 bag in the bow, right? That would be about 5000 in water weight total. What motor are you running? What is your fuel consumption?

What your thoughts on this one? It's got a BIG motor.
http://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listi...omcat&ad_cid=7

It's local so I could go look at it anytime...I just might go today.

[dakota4ce]

You are correct, no factory bow ballast. The 1200s run to just behind the driver's butt on each side.

The underseat storage in front is of the "molded cooler" type. So bags would not work well--UNLESS you simply cut the coolers out. I asked about doing that, and MB recommended against it. I know it has been done, though. There is a ton of room under there if the molded compartments were gone.

I would think some of them already have the additional ballast in them, at least in the rear. But if not, yes, needs to be installed. Thats what I did. I really like lead for the front. Takes up less space. My preference.

If you're going to go big on any boat, more weight will be required. The 24 is a massive boat, so lots and lots of weight is needed. I run the Indmar 410 L96, and it is propped down to 15x11. Fuel consumption is not good! It should be better consistently next summer though running the bow weight. It turns about 3700 while surfing 11.6.

Big boat, big motor, big weight and big wave = big fuel bill! That caddy motor would be sweet--probably a guzzler but the power would be awesome. I make due just fine with the 410 with the right weight and propping, though. Who knows, maybe the big dog would do better because its working easier. I am unsure!

Go take a look. The interior room is insane in this hog. Its a big old girl.

The black is beautiful, and you need boat bling hot sauce on tap at all times . I know from experience. Below is mine--that is a Sequoia with 35s pulling it. Big *** boat.

IMG_3014.jpg

[dakota4ce]

In light of all this, an F22 really hits a sweet spot with regard to not needing that massive weight to sink it enough to kick off a sweet wave. But if you want the big hog, its worth it. It has so much room in it.

The B52 is also very very roomy.

In theory, there are a ton of used boats at about 60K that would be great with GSA on them. I know Malibus kick off a sweet wave with GSA, lots of MasterCrafts do too--the GSA company X45 was freaking insane. They sold it last summer and received a new F24--Ryan claims the two are close, with the X45 wave being better looking but the F24 being stronger. At that point, its splitting hairs.

No matter what though, all of them are going to take huge weight to get there. Gotta sink that pig to get the desired result. No way around it.

Trouble with other brands, it just seemed to me that you don't get as much for the money. For instance, you could look at the F24 you sent me, or you could fork very similar money for an older Malibu 247 or X45. They're just more expensive for an older boat. The value of MB is why I ended up there. GSA works on lots of boats very well--so there are choices galore.

[dakota4ce]

The one you sent would be sweet in high 50s. Maybe he will deal? I could not see the hours....

[UNSTUCK]

How bad is the fuel use? Ragboy was totally happy with his Z3 avx and was getting under 4 gph. Not sure what a taps3 would do to that? I'm also getting around 4 in my boat now. I understand about a big boat and big weight, but I know it can be done with less fuel. Are you talking 8, 9, 10 gph? That might be a deal breaker. I am liking the thought of one of these MB boats though.

[dakota4ce]

How bad is the fuel use? Ragboy was totally happy with his Z3 avx and was getting under 4 gph. Not sure what a taps3 would do to that? I'm also getting around 4 in my boat now. I understand about a big boat and big weight, but I know it can be done with less fuel. Are you talking 8, 9, 10 gph? That might be a deal breaker. I am liking the thought of one of these MB boats though.

Oh yeah, we are talking 8+. Any surf system boat (except for maybe Malibu, that's not a real surf system LOL just kidding) is going to suck the fuel. It rewards you with the wave, but nothing can touch the efficiency of a listed boat for fuel. My slammed 24Ve was 4 as well. That was incredible.

Now with that said, an F22 would probably do better. Most of them are 5.7s and aren't hauling as much weight to get similar displacement.

The reboats guys I bet have some good fuel info.


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[Bakes5]

Also...you want a big motor. Esp at altitude. I consider the raptor 440 barely adequate for my Z3. With a 12 pitch prop it's a tractor. We live above 18 mph so I repropped to a 14 pitch. It does well but struggles a little with full boat and full ballast and extra weight.

In short...don't get a big boat with a 5.7 motor unless you are happy going slow

[dakota4ce]

Also...you want a big motor. Esp at altitude. I consider the raptor 440 barely adequate for my Z3. With a 12 pitch prop it's a tractor. We live above 18 mph so I repropped to a 14 pitch. It does well but struggles a little with full boat and full ballast and extra weight.

In short...don't get a big boat with a 5.7 motor unless you are happy going slow

It's a tough balance. Mine is a tractor, top speed of 35 or so. But I never go faster than 25 so it's all good.

The gas thing is gonna be a sticking point. Surfing costs the monies!


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[ddutcher]

A buddy of mine bought a 2016 24' MB with gsa and he has ran out of fuel 3 times this past summer by mid to late day. They surf, wake board and tube. Insane since it has an 85 gallon tank in it. He came out in my Z3 and we did the same things for 6-8 hours and I burned about 3/4 tank of fuel. As a matter of fact I put in 30 gallons the next trip out to fill it up. Nice boat but with fuel prices in Cali it would be a deal breaker for me as well. He also noted it was nice to sit down and drive while surfing as he cannot see over the bow in his mb so he has to stand. They make a good boat but they will be off my list when I look for a new boat in the next year or two but so will Tige for that matter.