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    #1

    Nasty Vibration under load

    Hello TO's,

    I've given my dealer two cracks at this with no luck. I'm hoping the community here has some ideas.

    As you likely have seen, I've been experimenting this year with my 2013 Z1 (PCM 343, 1433 prop, Wake9 bags). I've been trying different combinations of gates and tabs to see if I can refine my surf wave which is already pretty good.

    Starting early this spring I noticed a bad vibration when fully sacked. It started the first time at the Alberta TO reunion at Little Bow. I tried weighting both sides of the boat and using a wedge from AJ. The boat started vibrating furiously. It shook the swim platform and even shook the mirror. It shook so bad it threw an engine code.

    Now I've experienced cavitation before, but this seemed to be far more violent than that. In the end, we reduce the ballast and surfed anyways. I took the boat to the dealer and they diagnosed a misfire from the code. As such, they swapped the distributor cap. (which reminds me, PCM still hasn't given me warranty on that).

    I went out again and immediately it did the same thing. This time with just normal listing. It was particularly bad listed to starboard. Threw another code. I took it back to the dealer again. They said bad alignment. In fact they said "extremely bad alignment". So they fixed it up again. (BTW - your prop should be able to spin if you grab it with your hand and apply a reasonable amount of force. Mine would not spin prior to the alignment)

    The dealer lake tested it again and pronounced it fine.

    This weekend I took it out again. With full ballast port ballast and my suck gate, the boat struggled to get beyond 10 MPH without the violent shuddering. Putting TAPS down a bit would help, but as soon as I would raise TAPS (nose higher), the shudder would return. In the end it threw another code.

    So here I sit. The boat is nearing the end of its Tige 360 warranty and I want this fixed before that happens. However the dealer doesn't seem to know what to do. Is this simply a cavitation problem? Can cavitation hit you so hard it throws a knock sensor code??

    I am perplexed and looking for help.

    Here is a video I created from one of the worst runs. Rider is 6'8", 300+, so he typically caused it more than the rest of us.

    https://youtu.be/xXEi44cllcU
    Tags: None
    #2
    As such, they swapped the distributor cap. (which reminds me, PCM still hasn't given me warranty on that)
    Technically, this is a wear item with a normal service interval. Depending on your in-service date, your engine could be in its 4th season. How many hours.

    Threw another code.
    Same exact misfire code, general misfire or misfire on different cylinder from before? They they also replace plugs, wires and rotor? if the cap was due for a change based on hours, those other items may as well.
    Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by chpthril View Post
      Technically, this is a wear item with a normal service interval. Depending on your in-service date, your engine could be in its 4th season. How many hours.



      Same exact misfire code, general misfire or misfire on different cylinder from before? They they also replace plugs, wires and rotor? if the cap was due for a change based on hours, those other items may as well.
      Motor was in its third season. 92 hours at that time.

      The first time it was a misfire code on many cylinders. They replaced the cap as well as the plugs and wires.

      The second time it showed a check engine light but they didn't find any codes as I recall.



      Sent from my BlackBerry Priv

      Comment

        #4
        No need to warranty the cap. It wasn't the problem. Make the dealer eat it for the misdiagnosis.

        You can't make it vibrate with the ballast empty? What about at full rpms? Do you have a different prop to try?

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by UNSTUCK View Post
          No need to warranty the cap. It wasn't the problem. Make the dealer eat it for the misdiagnosis.

          You can't make it vibrate with the ballast empty? What about at full rpms? Do you have a different prop to try?
          The dealer said the cap had a lot of corrosion, so it needed to be replaced regardless. Good news on that is PCM is going to cover it.

          No, the vibration only occurs when loaded fully, and typically when the boat attitude is off. (i.e nose high, or extreme list) That is what makes me think it *could* be cavitation.

          I do have a different prop, but it is a 537. It would really struggle with the boat at any kind of load.

          --

          Update - my (new) dealer now tells me my (old) dealer did not file my warranty paperwork with PCM or Tige. As such, they won't honour any more warranty. Since the boat was built in July, but I purchased it new in October, I lose 3 months of warranty. I'm going to assume this oversight will be corrected before I say anything more about it.

          Comment

            #6
            What is curious to me is the attitude of the boat. If it has bad vibration with a nose high attitude what was the fuel tank when it was happening. I'll also assume you checked the oil level in the engine, it might be too high or too low, but if it's only happening when under load at high attitudes and steep listing angles, it could very well be cavitation. One way to check if it's cavitation is to change props. You may have a slightly bent prop or a ding that is very hard to see. Especially if you said the engine was out or alignment. If the prop looks good visually, I'd still take it off and make sure it's balanced. When it's off you might get a better look at the prop and see if it's been damaged at all.
            2009 RZ2, PCM 343, MLA Surf Ballast, Premium Sound.
            2013 Toyota Sequoia 4WD W/Timbren SES

            Comment

              #7
              JohnnieMo, I sent you a PM, I'll be heading up to Calgary this weekend if you want to meet up, or any other TOs in Calgary too.
              2009 RZ2, PCM 343, MLA Surf Ballast, Premium Sound.
              2013 Toyota Sequoia 4WD W/Timbren SES

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Ewok View Post
                What is curious to me is the attitude of the boat. If it has bad vibration with a nose high attitude what was the fuel tank when it was happening. I'll also assume you checked the oil level in the engine, it might be too high or too low, but if it's only happening when under load at high attitudes and steep listing angles, it could very well be cavitation. One way to check if it's cavitation is to change props. You may have a slightly bent prop or a ding that is very hard to see. Especially if you said the engine was out or alignment. If the prop looks good visually, I'd still take it off and make sure it's balanced. When it's off you might get a better look at the prop and see if it's been damaged at all.
                You have a good thought here. I damaged that 1433 last summer, and I ran with my backup 537 for the remainder of the year. The dealer repaired my 1433 and I put it on during the winter. The repair itself looked kinda poor, but I assumed it was still decent. I might have them double check it.

                For reference, here is what I did to it. I ran aground in reverse.





                BTW - fuel tank is completely full to partially full. Makes no difference.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Depending on who did the repair I would bet some beers that the prop wasn't repaired properly. Was it ACME or a good dedicated prop shop? Or just the dealer smoothing it out? It doesn't take much to get a bent prop to cavitate.
                  2009 RZ2, PCM 343, MLA Surf Ballast, Premium Sound.
                  2013 Toyota Sequoia 4WD W/Timbren SES

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I would question the repair the prop as well. You might get another new 1433 anyway since your 537 is not such a great backup?
                    Give Mike's Liquid Audio a call and get a price on a new ACME.
                    Mike Allen, Tigé owner since 1997

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Heavily ballasted would certainly magnify a poor prop repair.
                      Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                      Comment

                        #12
                        The repair was done by the dealer or a subcontractor to the dealer in Kelowna. Not sure.

                        I had my 537 repaired once here in Calgary and it came out looking like new. This one has never looked the same but I assumed its performance would be okay.

                        Here are some closeups.





                        Side question - the dealer didn't fasten that nut all the way down..... Is that normal?

                        I do intend to get another propeller but I'm still sorting out which one.

                        Sent from my BlackBerry Priv
                        Last edited by JohnnieMo; 08-30-2016, 12:15 AM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Get a different prop . It's obviously out of balance just from looking at that pic.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            That prop nut needs to be properly torqued, which would indeed seat it against the prop hub. Id probably lap the new prop to the shaft, given the current scenario.
                            Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I should have trusted my gut and rejected the repair when I saw it. But I figured they knew what they were doing.....

                              What does it mean to "lap the new prop to the shaft?"

                              And what is the proper torque?


                              Sent from my BlackBerry Priv

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