My design for a TAPS3-VX

[duffymahoney]

[QUOTE=JohnnieMo;765558]The more I ride behind my boat and observe the wave, the more I am thinking about doing some trials without the Vx all together. The downside of the Vx is that you increase the running surface of your boat. This means you need more weight to make the wave. Last week we went out surfing with 3 adults. The wave, even with my loaded Wake9 bags, was too small for me to go wireless comfortably. (I was leaning forward the whole time) As a result I needed to add a 700lb bag to the seat. Typically when I surf I have two 300lb guys sitting on the back of the boat, and that makes it incredible (without that 700lb bag).

So my point is, the Vx may be hurting me with a small crew. I will do some testing without the Vx and report back. I haven't done it since I had the Rev 1 brackets. Even though the Vx adds some smoothing, I'm not convinced it negates its impact on weight. For big guys like me, that is a big deal.

I am 100% convinced the vx hurts the wave. Tige took my wave flap idea and made a prettier version of it, but took away the real point, which is prop wash calming without raising the rear of the boat out of the water at all. The adjustable avx was a much better design.

[Z3CO23]

Sorry for the hijack but...

If you do go with testing something without the VX, here's what the Z3 and Taps 3 will do, in case you were looking at some sort of plate system.

Setup is pretty much the same as Rayboy's when he helped out the family with the white and purple Z3:

1000 lbs each rear locker (w004 and 250 hard tank each)
800 lbs full up front
450 lb bag full on floor
130 lb driver
300 lb spotter sitting port in corner
250 lb passenger sitting port mid cabin

My big arse goes about 270 so needing push is an understatement. As you can see I'm a human plow on a surfboard and someday ill upgrade to a performance big boy board. Board is LF fiver.... didn't care for it, bubbled after first use, like my ronix boards more.

Speed 11.4
taps 2 @ 4
taps 3 @ 1

[skier man]

Very cool, great read! Looking forward to all the progress!

[majestic]

If you take the VX off you will feel more push in the wave, but you will most likely see a rooster tail and prop wash. The flap will help clean it up. The VX made the wave pretty, but the power in the wave was reduced a lot. The AVX brought some of the push back, but not as much as no VX and the flap.

[JohnnieMo]

If you take the VX off you will feel more push in the wave, but you will most likely see a rooster tail and prop wash. The flap will help clean it up. The VX made the wave pretty, but the power in the wave was reduced a lot. The AVX brought some of the push back, but not as much as no VX and the flap.

I am 100% convinced the vx hurts the wave. Tige took my wave flap idea and made a prettier version of it, but took away the real point, which is prop wash calming without raising the rear of the boat out of the water at all. The adjustable avx was a much better design.

I will add this to my testing regimen. I do believe that the Rev 3 brackets will do less dampening and more smoothing.

The good news is, if this project doesn't work out I can still toss the Vx and go with a true TAPS3 or a flap. I'm only modifying the Vx.

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Started my tinkering today. I had a couple hours so I rigged up a trial. My plan is to use hinges on the Vx and then a tab along the underside of the Vx. Pictures explain it best.



















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So what did I learn?

- the Vx is not solid. When I drilled in the brackets I discovered that it was only about 1/8" thick along that back ridge. As such it may not be strong enough. The it also could get water inside.

- The Vx is heavy. If nothing else it adds 100lbs of weight where you want it.

- the Vx is flat across the transom but otherwise has no straight edges. Any tab will need to be bent to contour it properly.

- from the bottom of the swim platform to 45 degree deflection is about 11". This matches the TAPS2 throw. This means the same actuator should work.

What did I accomplish?

- This was really only meant to be a jig but I may try it out. I have a piece of the black fiberglass baffle I could substitute for the plywood. Or I could stick some water sealant on the ply. Haven't decided yet.

- I chose this shape for a couple reasons. I matched the length of my Wake9 TAPS plate. For width I went about 2" inside the outer edges. For shape I decided to make it longer on the outside so it was roughly parallel to the ground when fully extended (45 deg). I can daily try other shapes. Might just buy some thin plexi or fiberglass and glue it on the wood to try new shapes.

- I used galvanized hinges with a brass pin. The pin is removable. I can tap the pins out to remove it relatively easily. (Far easier than a prop swap).

- the adjustment comes from a movable 'handle on demand'. I made a rectangular loop out of 3/4" copper pipe and ran it down the inside of the handle. It is easy to remove and attach. It is then attached to the tab with a couple conduit loop clamps. It allows adjustment from virtually flat with the hull up to about 45 degrees.

I actually think I am going to remove the HOD and just use blocks of wood formed into wedges. These could then be fastened with velcro. An advantage to this approach is that when the wedge is removed the tab can sit flat and velcro itself to the Vx.

Potential Problems:

- the tab would be fine as 1/8" steel but as 1/2" wood it hangs a little too low on the leading edge. I won't be able to go any faster than surf speeds with it attached or it may rip right off.

- since the Vx is not solid my hinges may not hold. If they don't I could have a real mess.

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[Surf406]

I had my vx stock on my boat and decided to raise it up and changed the angle and its 1.5" on the corners to the underside of the platform and it throws a massive long surf wave now. Im interested on seeing how this plays out on your boat.

[JohnnieMo]

I decided to move away from the suction cup system for adjusting the plate angle. It just isn't strong enough, and physics is working against it in many cases. Instead I just cut some 4x6 into various wedge sizes. I've got 45, 32.5 and 25 degrees blocks. I will fasten them in with velcro.







So far the weather here has been crappy. Straight rain for a week. You can tell it is Calgary Stampede week. Monday or Tuesday looks better. I will try to get out then.

[JohnnieMo]

First day of testing complete. In a word: promising.

Here are some pics.

This is the lowest deflection (about 22 degrees off the Vx) with zero ballast.



I decided that more would be better so I jumped straight to my 45 degree block. Here it is with a bit of ballast. (I started filling all 4 bags)





Starting to look pretty nice.

And here it is with front full ballast (800lbs) and rear about half way. (I have Wake9 bags). The off side bag was actually fuller on later inspection.



And here is Chuck Norris surfing said wave.



So here are my impressions:

- I wasn't aiming to have an 'even weighted' surf wave but I apparently achieved it.

- the wave was a different shape. Hard to explain. It had a more shallow transition, especially as it moved back into the 'hook'

- the wave had less push. I had a near impossible time going ropeless. However I'm not certain if tab was the reason (missing my massive buddies could also be a factor)

- the boat did not like when all ballast was full (about 3700 lbs). It had a bad shudder. I don't think it was cavitation. I think there may be an issue. It threw a code which I assume was the knock sensor. Either way I think it's too much for my 1433 and EX343.

- it was near impossible to turn left while surfing. It took a lot of compensation to just stay straight.

- one unexpected side effect was the tab shot a lot of water up between the Vx and the transom. It then shunted out the top of the Vx and took a lot of exhaust gas with it. So the result was more exhaust and more noise. An FAE might be needed if I go this route.

- engine was working much harder than usual.

- when listing the other way, the tab did not appear to adversely affect the goofy wave. It tucked up out of the way enough to be a non factor.

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I also tried my suck gate but it wouldnt hold. It just slid off the back of the boat. No idea how anyone gets those to work. Mine needs improvement.

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Not sure what to do next. I think a new shape is warranted. One that has less impact on steering. The again my goal was never an even boat....

Thoughts?


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[duffymahoney]

I dislike gate waves, the wave is 100% surfable, I just don't like the shape, transition etc... Maybe I am a list wave snob?!

[JohnnieMo]

Having never ridden behind a gate boat before (or a tab boat for that matter), I have no basis for comparison. However I would easily state that the listed wave uses less ballast and generates more push. This is only from my one sample run, using a home made contraption.

More specifically I found the volume of water generated to be large, but the peak of the wave was further away from the transom. I usually find a very 'peaky' wave right off the swim platform. Using the tab, the wave got bigger more gradually, and peaked towards the curl of the wave. I found I actually wanted a longer rope to try and test it. Either way I found the wave to be harder to surf.

Another point - I am 275lbs, but have surfed a lot. My buddy (Chuck Norris up there), is closer to 210lbs and said it was just as good as before, although he has surfed a lot less than me. Go figure.

I would be eager to hear from those who have surfed a Z3 listed, vs Z3 TAPS3. Are the waves different?

I'm not saying the tab approach can't be made to be better, but I didn't expect such a drastically different shape.

I think I need to get some comparative pictures with all variables equal.

[Germaine Marine]

This is a surf system wave. And for those saying that you cant get them tall with a lot of mass at faster speeds, this is at 12.5 mph.....



IMG_3555-3.jpg

[Germaine Marine]

I have surfed and owned both.... To me, with a ton and I mean a ton of work, I think this system produces the best wave to date. It has taken hours and hours and hours to get it right but this system really doesent struggle doing anything my listed boats have done.........and do it better.

The original rumblings were,

1. The shape and size are lacking
2 They dont build a long usable wave
3 The wave is mushy because the system struggles to keep shape and quality at faster speeds.


Well, I can tell you with some fine tuning and figuring what the boat likes, it can do all those things and do them extremely well and repeatable.

[Germaine Marine]

Maybe try little to no bow weight first.. See what happens, my boat loves more then then supplied bow weight... Roughly 1000lbs up front

[KXCORKY]

Order the aluminum handle from amazon and you wont have a problem with the suction anymore. I have built quite a few and had no issues except for on an X-45 due to hull curvature.

[b_jackson_03]

This is a surf system wave. And for those saying that you cant get them tall with a lot of mass at faster speeds, this is at 12.5 mph.....

Elevated....

How in the world did you produce that wave?!!

What boat, and how much weight?!!