24Ve lacking "push"

[goridedoo]

New to boats and surfing, have been out surfing 5 times now. First two days were on a buddys G23... and sadly now my 24Ve has been a real disappointment, LOL. Apples to oranges, I know. On the second day with the G23 I was able to toss the rope and go for about 30 seconds. I have since gotten much more comfortable being on the board and carving around a little, but going ropeless on my 24Ve is not going well. The pocket or "sweet spot" seems tiny, I can get in the spot and hang there with slack in the rope but as soon as I try to carve up or down at all I have to use the rope to keep from ending up out the back of the wave.

Heres my setup- I have been playing with it a little. I have flyhighs "custom" rear sacs from MLA in both rear lockers and the flyhigh bow sack. I run just the port side sack full, and no other weight anywhere other than a passenger or 2 port side, and the driver. I have found about 10.8 seems like a decent speed, slower and the wave seems to lose its shape, faster and it lengthens but seems to lose the little push it has. I think I like the taps plate around 4.5-5, higher and it gets steeper and taller but starts to get washy over 6. Lower than 4 and it really starts to lengthen and mellow out, and also, lose push. Any observations wrong here? I havent had a ton of time to play with it, and its kind of hard to judge things as a beginner, but it is amazing how much little changes seem to change things. I tried to run bow weight... found out I was missing a couple plugs on my sac when I realized the bilge was pumping water out. But from my research bow weight will add length, while decreasing push, so that will more than likely not be a solution. Maybe some starboard side weight will help? Open to any suggestions, and maybe I just need more practice and ropeless will come with time.

That said my girlfriend who has spent about half the time on the board was able to go ropeless for sometime today... But on the starboard side, the wave looks better on that side, and at one point she was pretty far back and stayed with it for a few seconds, no way she could have hung out that far back port side.

[killerbren]

I have a 22VE and I found that adding bow weight would decrease the height of the wave a small amount, but make the wave longer and "harder" (more push). I was/am a newbie as well but I thought I could feel a difference. Last year we had to fill sacs manually so unfortunately I was too lazy to fill the bow much last year. This year I have installed the pumps so I can test out the difference a bit more. I have basically the same set up as you.

Another thing to think about, did you change boards between the G23 and the 24ve? Different boards will make all the difference in the world. What are you riding now, and how much do you weigh? (if you dont mind me asking). In the beginning of last year I had a great wave but a board that was too small for me and couldn't let go of the rope, I weigh 230lbs. I upgraded boards and wow what a difference, going ropeless is easy now.

Your boat isn't the problem here, that thing will put out an amazing wave. If you like surfing you bought the right boat!

[chpthril]

Are you riding the same board between the two boats? Board speed can very greatly from to another. Even a different fin configuration can change board speed. Speed and bow weight will lengthen the pocket, but it does reduce the height, which is what deem "push". Experience will also reduce the need to rely on the wave to do all the work.

[whiteflash watersports]

Another thing to thinkabout is your just learning to ride. My daughter was able to get up and go and freeride "ropeless" the first day. She is also an ocean surfer who had been surfing for 4 years before her first wakesurf session. It took me about 6 months before I could freeride. Everyone is different. Riding for 30 seconds without the rope is a long way form riding ropeless. While the wave is obviously a key component you also have to develop your skill.

[jslayde1]

Your boat isn't the problem here, that thing will put out an amazing wave. If you like surfing you bought the right boat!

Exactly - that boat makes a killer wave! I'm sure one of the 24 owners will chime in with their exact setup soon...

For now though, we need pics!!

[IDBoating]

Can't write up a ton of details right now (hopefully later), but I promise the 24Ve will put out an awesome wave. The trick is that this is a BIG hull, which needs a LOT of ballast. We have a huge fully custom fat sac on both sides and we fill the surfing side all the way up to get started. Then the offside gets several hundred pounds as well. As a general rule, you should have as much weight as possible on the surf side, and then enough on the offside to sink the swim platform on the offside a few inches below the water. TAPS 2-4, never higher; the lower TAPS settings tend to clean up the lip. Speed anywhere from 10.8 to 11.4, with faster yielding a more aggressive wave and slower being gentler for beginners. More bow weight for starboard side, less for port.

I'd say we have a surfable length of ~15 feet behind our 24Ve, which starts about 5 feet off the transom. My 14YO son can recover from so far back on the wave that you'd swear it's impossible. So there's "push" over a huge region back there. Literally everyone who has surfed behind our boat says it's the biggest and most powerful wave they've ever been on. A few prefer the *shape* from other boats, and that's fine, but nobody has ever said it was wimpy! So the potential is in your boat... you probably just need more ballast. And then more. And then even more. We can probably put 2500+ pounds on either side of ours, and even then sometimes we toss an extra 400 pound fat sac on the seats just for kicks when we have a small crew (i.e. just our family of three).

[Dandy]

With a fairly quick search, I found these 2 threads that are specifically about the 24Ve ballast and set up. You most likely will find some GREAT information in here considering the contributors.
http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...eup&highlight=
AND
http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ing&highlight=

[goridedoo]

I have a 22VE and I found that adding bow weight would decrease the height of the wave a small amount, but make the wave longer and "harder" (more push). I was/am a newbie as well but I thought I could feel a difference. Last year we had to fill sacs manually so unfortunately I was too lazy to fill the bow much last year. This year I have installed the pumps so I can test out the difference a bit more. I have basically the same set up as you.

Another thing to think about, did you change boards between the G23 and the 24ve? Different boards will make all the difference in the world. What are you riding now, and how much do you weigh? (if you dont mind me asking). In the beginning of last year I had a great wave but a board that was too small for me and couldn't let go of the rope, I weigh 230lbs. I upgraded boards and wow what a difference, going ropeless is easy now.

Your boat isn't the problem here, that thing will put out an amazing wave. If you like surfing you bought the right boat!

Ahhh boards and myself are things I forgot to mention. I did a little research and bought a CWB Tsunami, sounded like its a good beginner board, but also good to progress on. I currently have all three rear fins, and the front one in. My experience is that it doesnt seem very bouyant, and with little experience with other boards it hard to really judge it in any other way. When I rode behind the g23 I tried both a byerly volt and a ronix powertail (powerfin?). The volt was definitely harder to stay in the sweet spot with, the ronix was a big bouyant board and was wayyyyyy easier to keep slack in the rope with. I am 165lbs.

[goridedoo]

Can't write up a ton of details right now (hopefully later), but I promise the 24Ve will put out an awesome wave. The trick is that this is a BIG hull, which needs a LOT of ballast. We have a huge fully custom fat sac on both sides and we fill the surfing side all the way up to get started. Then the offside gets several hundred pounds as well. As a general rule, you should have as much weight as possible on the surf side, and then enough on the offside to sink the swim platform on the offside a few inches below the water. TAPS 2-4, never higher; the lower TAPS settings tend to clean up the lip. Speed anywhere from 10.8 to 11.4, with faster yielding a more aggressive wave and slower being gentler for beginners. More bow weight for starboard side, less for port.

I'd say we have a surfable length of ~15 feet behind our 24Ve, which starts about 5 feet off the transom. My 14YO son can recover from so far back on the wave that you'd swear it's impossible. So there's "push" over a huge region back there. Literally everyone who has surfed behind our boat says it's the biggest and most powerful wave they've ever been on. A few prefer the *shape* from other boats, and that's fine, but nobody has ever said it was wimpy! So the potential is in your boat... you probably just need more ballast. And then more. And then even more. We can probably put 2500+ pounds on either side of ours, and even then sometimes we toss an extra 400 pound fat sac on the seats just for kicks when we have a small crew (i.e. just our family of three).

I have spent quite some time reading your max ballast write up, it impressive, and very cleanly done. Sadly I'm not sure I am ready to go to those lengths yet. Right now, and maybe more time is really all I need, but the surfable length seems to start about 3ft back from the platform and end at about 6.

I will definitely try weighting the starboard side and get the platform submerged next time out.

I feel like I mentioned lead last fall before I even took possesion of the boat and people here werent real fond of it. I think I could add around 500lbs port side pretty easily. 300 or so underneath my sac and 200 or so behind the battery. Thoughts? I currently dont have anything "plumbed" in so I am back there goofing around before we surf anyway and could move the lead else where in the boat for cruising, loading, unloading etc.

[goridedoo]

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[goridedoo]

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[goridedoo]

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[goridedoo]

Posting pictures from the phone doesnt work so well, one at a time and sideways I guess. Thats the only pictures I have right now, I wont have a chance to get out again until next week but I will get some of the port side wave then.

[Bubba08]

I had a 24ve that I would also manually fill all ballast. So it was key to getaway with the fewest about of bags as possible for the sake of time. What I came up with that worked well for me was 1100 lbs in the rear port locker, 450 lbs just in front of the locker under the seat and another 450lbs on top of the seat on the port side. I would run Taps at 5. I did not use any bow or starboard weight. This yielded a fun wave that I could ride ropeless for as long as I wanted to. I also had the Byerly Volt and weigh about 155. I'd run 3 fins in the back and the board really is a pretty fast board compared to alot out there. Technique is a HUGE part of being able to surf without the rope. Hope this helps.

[goridedoo]

Maybe there are better board options for learning. Any recommendations? Can get a pretty price on a broadcast right now.