Diesel outboard engine... could an actual inboard diesel be next?

[IDBoating]

it would be pretty pricey too. A Diesel in a new pickup is what an extra 15 grand?

Two observations:

1) The basic Indmar 6.2L engine has ~400HP. To move to the 440HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine, literally just different firmware in the ECU - the upcharge is $6K. To move to the ~575HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine plus supercharger - the upcharge is over $17K. So inboards ALREADY have upgrade options beyond the threshold you're quoting.

2) A few years ago, when you could buy a brand new top end inboard for ~$60-80K, an upcharge of ~$10-15K might have seemed steep. But at today's new prices, when $120K isn't even the high end, an engine upcharge of $10-12K isn't such a huge issue anymore. See #1 above... they're already offering engine upcharges in that price range.

I don't think it's a pricing issue.

[jaceaser]

So way back when mastercraft was still building the X80, they had a diesel option. I talked to someone about diesel inboards and the only reason I ever heard was availability of diesel on the docks. Diesel engines are inherently tough and water tight to begin with so I wouldn't think it would be a huge overhead to marinize a cummins. Noise isn't an issue anymore my 2013 cummins is super quiet even when I'm not in the truck. Especially compared to those old detroit diesels back in the day. Exhaust has improved, not necessarily a big fan of adding DEF however. What's also awesome is now there are so many size options for diesel engines with all the European diesels. I saw pavati has a diesel option, but until one of the big boys does it no one will do it.

[UNSTUCK]

Cars and boat is like apples and oranges. There are less diesels in cars, not because people don't want them, but because the auto builders can't make them meet emissions standards. Think VW. Boats don't have that issue, yet. One of the other benefits is that diesel fuel is not flammable. So no worry about fuel leaks, blowers, ect.

[rensink]

Two observations:

1) The basic Indmar 6.2L engine has ~400HP. To move to the 440HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine, literally just different firmware in the ECU - the upcharge is $6K. To move to the ~575HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine plus supercharger - the upcharge is over $17K. So inboards ALREADY have upgrade options beyond the threshold you're quoting.

2) A few years ago, when you could buy a brand new top end inboard for ~$60-80K, an upcharge of ~$10-15K might have seemed steep. But at today's new prices, when $120K isn't even the high end, an engine upcharge of $10-12K isn't such a huge issue anymore. See #1 above... they're already offering engine upcharges in that price range.

I don't think it's a pricing issue.

Your numbers are incorrect the standard Indmar 6.2L Raptor 400 is actually 350hp the numbers that Indmar uses like 400,440, and 575 is referring to ft. lbs of torque

[SKSailboatshop]

Two observations:

1) The basic Indmar 6.2L engine has ~400HP. To move to the 440HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine, literally just different firmware in the ECU - the upcharge is $6K. To move to the ~575HP version - still 6.2L, same basic engine plus supercharger - the upcharge is over $17K. So inboards ALREADY have upgrade options beyond the threshold you're quoting.

2) A few years ago, when you could buy a brand new top end inboard for ~$60-80K, an upcharge of ~$10-15K might have seemed steep. But at today's new prices, when $120K isn't even the high end, an engine upcharge of $10-12K isn't such a huge issue anymore. See #1 above... they're already offering engine upcharges in that price range.

I don't think it's a pricing issue.

just making a reference to a vehicle;e for a context...in a marine application it would likely be much much more. But the torque potential for a diesel is pretty wild

[chpthril]

but because the auto builders can't make them meet emissions standards. Think VW.

The VW case is one in which they fudged the results in order retain performance and not a case of "we couldnt make them run clean". A simple firmware update I think has those engine now meeting spec?

Diesel car engine can absolutely meet emission standards, same as truck engines. If not, then how do we have so many trucks with diesels?

When looking to make a profit, the car and boat markets are exactly the same. Very fair comparison and apples to apples. US car builders and builders of cars for the US markets, are not going to flood the streets with diesel cars because we dont want them. Boat builder have obviously determined that there is not a profit in it.

Boats don't have that issue,

The state of CA required CATS on boats back on like 09 or 2010. Many other states have fallowed suite. Closed EVAP is now required on boat, 1-2 seasons ago i think. The engine are required to meet an initial emission standard, but not yet required to maintain it like road vehicles do in most states.

One of the other benefits is that diesel fuel is not flammable. So no worry about fuel leaks, blowers, ect.

Not as combustible as gasoline for sure. This why you see diesel on some may larger live-aboard boats and commercial boats.

[IDBoating]

Your numbers are incorrect the standard Indmar 6.2L Raptor 400 is actually 350hp the numbers that Indmar uses like 400,440, and 575 is referring to ft. lbs of torque

OK, but the point is that engine upcharges equal to or greater than that required for a diesel engine are already occurring in the inboard market. Price is not the barrier.

[IDBoating]

the only reason I ever heard was availability of diesel on the docks

Let's think about that.

If you trailer your boat, it's a nonissue because all you have to do is grab the green hose instead of the black one at the gas station.

If you leave your boat in the ocean, diesel will be available because diesel engines are very common in offshore boats - even motor sailboats.

Now we're down to people who leave their boats in the water, at a lake, 24/7 during the season. They either live in waterfront property, or they rent/own a slip. What percentage of inboard owners does that represent? I fall into that category... I live in a house on a lake. There is no gas service on the lake, so I fill my boat with five gallon fuel cans. People like me could just as easily fill their fuel cans with diesel as with gasoline when they go to the gas station.

So the owners who are affected are those that meet all of the following criteria: Their boats stay in the water full time, and that water is an inland lake, and that lake does have an on-lake gas station, and that station doesn't have diesel. That's got to be a pretty small percentage. I bet it's a smaller percentage than buy the $17K supercharger upgrades today.

Diesel availability is not the barrier.

[Stingreye]

I vaguely remember reading about international boats needing to be diesel because that's whats at their marinas. I would have thought we would have heard about more diesel boats over seas if it were true though

[Booms]

Check this out - http://www.boattest.com/review/epic/3487_23v

[chpthril]

Now we're down to people who leave their boats in the water, at a lake, 24/7 during the season. They either live in waterfront property, or they rent/own a slip. What percentage of inboard owners does that represent? I fall into that category... I live in a house on a lake. There is no gas service on the lake, so I fill my boat with five gallon fuel cans. People like me could just as easily fill their fuel cans with diesel as with gasoline when they go to the gas station

You need to think broader here, but even then, its still too small of a number.

Also, marinas and many community docks will not allow fuel cans on the docks, so owners would not be able to go retrieve their own diesel and fill their one boats.

We have 2 incredibly populated lakes right here, and not an oz of diesel to be had on the water.

Diesel availability is not the barrier.

I disagree. The inland diesel infrastructure is not there to support diesel boats, thus no market. I think its a chicken before the egg thing though. Build the diesel boats and will the pumps come or if the diesel pumps are setup, will the diesel boats be built?

[IDBoating]

Also, marinas and many community docks will not allow fuel cans on the docks, so owners would not be able to go retrieve their own diesel and fill their one boats.

Huh? Does that mean every single one has a fuel station on the water? How else do they fuel their boats?

I really hate it when people refuse to let other people be autonomous. If they're able to carry their own fuel, let 'em! If they'd rather buy from the lake gas station, let 'em!

[chpthril]

Huh? Does that mean every single one has a fuel station on the water? How else do they fuel their boats?

I really hate it when people refuse to let other people be autonomous. If they're able to carry their own fuel, let 'em! If they'd rather buy from the lake gas station, let 'em!

Insurance is the driving force there. Huge liability when you are fueling your own boat with 50 others moored up with it.

[IDBoating]

Insurance is the driving force there. Huge liability when you are fueling your own boat with 50 others moored up with it.

No guarantee gas station attendants are any better. I was once in line behind a 35-40 footer when I heard the owner shout "HEY! You're pumping all that gasoline into my bilge vent!" We backed away quickly.

[ChrisSnow]

I think the problem with diesel is that until you get the rpm up to the point the turbo kicks in you don't have much power. So not great for a tow boat!

It's not so much the power or torque but the point it delivers it.

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