Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The FAE thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    The FAE thread

    This thread is a continuation of a hijacked thread.

    Original thread-


    http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...317#post758317


    ericinmich said-

    D&P - One thing that impacts the CO is how rich and engine is running so that may make some folks experiences different than others.

    With modern cars/trucks (say last 20 or more years) if the engine is running correctly the risk of CO poisoning is just about zero. If you ran a car in an enclosed space (garage) there is a better chance of dying of CO2 depletion (lack of O2) than from CO poisoning. Engines run at a lambda of 1 with slight perturbations rich and lean to "fill" the catalytic converter first with excess O2 (lean) then with slightly rich so the converter processes all the bad stuff. There is essentially no CO coming out of the tail pipe.

    On to boat engines. Going way back they had carburetors and could easily be running rich enough to produce dangerous CO. Their controls were all open loop and crude, with error on the rich side for engine safety and power. More recently they added open loop fuel injection (this is what my boat uses). They still didn't run at a lambda of 1 (no O2 sensor) but they ran much more consistently. There was likely boat to boat variation but in general, unless at higher loads (power) they ran close to lambda of 1, not much CO produced. Next came engines with catalytic converters, some with switching O2 sensors, and now some with wide range O2 sensors. With switching sensors they likely ran almost all the time with a lambda of 1 and CO/HC/NOx being processed in the converter so no CO risk. Wide range O2 systems likely run about the same as switching, or they would trash the converters on the engines, so again not much risk.

    Yes, there have been been engines that put out CO. I have not heard of any issues with modern engines (fuel injection and converters). Just like modern cars, unless they are running poorly, warning lights on yet driver keeps going, it just can't happen... IMO

    As a derail, I spent 30 years in engine controls, SW/Cal/HW, which is really keeping me from upgrading boats. Something about a small block GM engine with simple open loop controls, vs. the major step up in complexity of a Ford 6.2 Raptor with catalytic converters and wide range O2 sensors.
    50
    Yes
    44.00%
    22
    No
    32.00%
    16
    I plan on getting one
    24.00%
    12
    I got rid of it
    0.00%
    0
    You'll get your chance, smart guy.

    #2
    How many thread views do they need to see before they'll give us a group buy?

    Comment


      #3
      Great reply Eric. However, every boat I've ever been on without an FAE and with a surfer or I have surfed have always given me the same result, head ache, nausea, dizziness.

      List of boats without FAE I have surfed and/or crewed-

      Tige 22i, 350 Mag
      Tige 22ve, MP 340
      Tige RZ2, I assume MP 340
      Tige 20v, MP 340
      Malibu 21xti, Indmar 383 Hammerhead
      Malibu 23xti, unsure, pre-CAT
      Malibu VLX, unsure, pre-CAT
      Malibu Sportser, unsure pre-CAT
      Supreme V226, Merc 380 CAT
      Nautique 210, unsure, old one
      Sanger V210, Merc 454 Mag

      With the exception of the Supreme, they all gave me the same result. Perhaps I'm just hyper sensitive?
      You'll get your chance, smart guy.

      Comment


        #4
        Here is Ragboy's video on a non-catalytic equipped 24Ve. I think it was an 07 or 08?

        Some more info:


        Their website:
        http://wake9.bighead.net/wakesurfing...y-information/

        No doubt cats and modern motors help out but for me, I really like the FAE. Also notice how in Ragboy's video its the ballast boy that gets the most CO.

        I have also been on single outlet MB boat with a CAT and when weighted for goofy, the exhaust screams at you, it was less on an issue on the port side. I did not think it was that noticeably different until I had surfed my boat with FAE for about a year then went to Polar Bear for the second time. I noticed how loud every boat (these were mostly new boats) was except Convex Vx boats (Z3 and Z1) and Topaz Surfer's FAE equipped 22V. I love my FAE and even with a new boat, it would be one of my first mods. I also have small children and the quieter engine seems to help with the fear factor with the little ones.
        Mods: MLA BIG Ballast System (1800+ Custom sacs, 2 500 W705 sacs under bow), Duffy Surf Flap Mod, Trimmed Swim Deck, Top-Mount Starter

        Comment


          #5
          I'll admit I miss the sound of my non-FAE equipped boat. On the other hand unless I had the front walk way window open when surfing the amount of exhaust that would roll back in the boat was brutal. I ran my boat without FAE for one season before it was the first thing I added last season. So much better now.

          Comment


            #6
            I always have my front walkway window open, when boating, could that be a major reason why I've never noticed even a hint of any smell other than my own farts?

            Comment


              #7
              Great video, looks to be a well run experiment. My takes:

              Fae didn't change the amount of CO that the surfer sees.

              I couldn't tell if they ran the tests with the pass through open or closed. My hunch was it was closed thus the station wagon effect.

              Even with the station wagon effect, the ballast boy seat would need to be exposed for a couple of hours before it would be a problem without a FAE.

              The tests were with pre cat engines. As stated in the video, with cat engines, CO wouldn't be a problem.

              Comment


                #8
                I plan to get FAE this year... I like what I've seen/heard about it, it just makes sense to me. One thing I'm not looking forward to: the loss of my exhaust tone. I love the sound of V8 boat exhaust. We had a twin engine Baja for awhile that was only good for going fast, but boy did it sound good doing it. I've always thought it was a little weird when you see a boat rolling across the lake and you can't hear it.. Will I be that boat now? Just how quiet do these things make boats. Nobody I know has one so I've never heard one in person..

                Comment


                  #9
                  ^^^^This. I love the sound and I know it sounds dumb but I'd hate to loose it as well. That being said, I do have a pretty nice stereo setup and have to really crank it to hear anything when powered up. I'm really at that point where I'm really considering the FAE. The other worry I have is that it will monkey with my wave and I really want to have that surf flap hanging down to help smooth out the wave. Does the FAE mess up the wave bad enough that a guy needs the surf flap?
                  "Charlie don't surf"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I just bought an FAE with a new mounting system that I'll be installing on my R20 in a few weeks. I'll take before and after videos and lots of photos.

                    I've got a cat engine but my passengers did complain about the exhaust smell. However, I got the FAE to reduce the noise, which was getting tiresome after a couple hours out.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      How about a simpler view?

                      Is there anything good that comes from breathing any internal combustion exhaust at all?

                      If you could keep you, your family and your friends from breathing internal combustion exhaust, would you?

                      I'm just trying to big picture it.

                      Look, I like the sound of a hot rod V8 just as much as the next guy, maybe more. I even like the smell. I love race gas. I'm a motor sports fan thru and thru. I've been to many, many races of all shapes and sizes including but not limited to NASCAR, NHRA, INDY, Lucas Oil Off Road, CORR, Late Models, Silver Crown, Sprints, Drag Boats, Cracker Boxes, Trans Am, Le Mans, Vintage, Land Speed, F'n Monster Trucks. All of them though pale in comparison to the most radical racing machines on the planet, Unlimited Air Racing. 4000+hp WWII era aircraft doing 500+mph 50ft off the deck. It makes truly fast cars look kinda silly. Although I did see Craig Breedlove do over 600mph out at the Black Rock before Burning Douche ruined the playa. That was pretty damned impressive. 300-400hp tow boats? Big picture, not very impressive. IMO of course.
                      Last edited by NICKYPOO; 03-04-2016, 05:41 AM.
                      You'll get your chance, smart guy.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You left out a few polling options:

                        -Who plans to build their own FAE: Me.

                        -Who's scared to death of Donald Trump may do as president: Me.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by UNSTUCK View Post
                          You left out a few polling options:

                          -Who plans to build their own FAE: Me.

                          -Who's scared to death of Donald Trump may do as president: Me.
                          Or simply sum it up: Who is scared to death of Hillary or Donald as president. Once again the choices will come down to the lesser of evils and either way it's a vote for a devil.

                          I would like to see Trump win just to see all the pain in the A$$ celebrities move to Canada. Then we could say Goodbye to Kanye, Mr. Sharpton and Miley. At least some good could come of that.

                          Sorry for the derail.

                          With regards to FAE. It's a fairly well proven concept that it provides some safety/health to you, your family and friends. So the question is more of why not? Not a bets analogy but if I could order a car without airbags I wouldn't as I know they may allow me or a family member to live to see another day, so again why not FAE?
                          "I think I am pretty smart for an idiot"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by UNSTUCK View Post
                            You left out a few polling options:

                            -Who plans to build their own FAE: Me.

                            -Who's scared to death of Donald Trump may do as president: Me.
                            Oops, forgot we now have a resident metal master 'round here. My mistake.
                            You'll get your chance, smart guy.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dandy View Post
                              Sorry for the derail.

                              So the question is more of why not?
                              No worries. I think we're all freaked out by all options at this point.

                              That is truly the big picture question. Boating is so much better with an FAE. I've yet to ever be convinced otherwise. At all. It seems so black and white to me but, apparently not everyone thinks so.
                              You'll get your chance, smart guy.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X