Hydrophase speed control. 08 Z1

[DirtNasty]

I have the old crappy tige speed control on my 08 z1 and with summer right around the corner, Im looking at either removing it and sending to IDBOATING for repair , or hopefully upgrading to Hydrophase or perfect pass. I have the base gm5.7 motor with an electric throttle cable i believe. My question is does anybody have one of these after market speed controls installed on similar year models that had the tige speed set from the factory with the same engine set up. If so how hard is the install and are there any special conditions or modifications that have to be made. I want something more reliable and accurate than the factory installed speed set that so many have had problems with.

http://www.hydrophase.com/

[dakota4ce]

Search my username--I did this to a 2006 MEFI4 motor with nearly perfect results. Yours is probably a MEFI5 motor, which may introduce some minor nuance to the procedure, but my hunch is a lot of what I did would work in your situation too. You have to move the mechanical portion of the throttle back to the engine compartment, then you're able to use Hydrophase with ease.

[DirtNasty]

yes just read your thread actually and pmd you. from first glance it looks like i have the same engine as you. but I do have different gauge set up in the 08 which may be the mefi5. im almost positive it is. which im hoping is a good thing because im hoping i can keep all my speedo and rpm and other factory gauges in operation and basicall only change the throttle assembly and add hydrophase. But im wondering if perfect pass has a plug and play for these systems or is this my only real option. I feel confident i could do it with a little help on the wiring diagram. (the jumper you made) but if i could buy a plug and play that would be ideal. from what im gathering though this may be my only option

[DirtNasty]

tige_r20_14_helm_big.jpg


this is an example of my gauge set up. id lke to install hydrophase in either the old spped set location with a custom trim plate obviously or in the stereo remote location and just replace the entire head unit with upgraded remotes in different location. im just hoping its a easy as it sounds electrically. summer is gonna be expensive lol but to be able to get on water and surf without having to jack with that crappy speed set would be amazing

[Stingreye]

I think with MEFI 5 you will want Zero off.

https://www.zerogps.com/product/5-st...board-zero-kit

Its my rookie crude understanding of speed control.....

MEFI prior to 5, the speed control was external to the motors ECU (MEFI). Therefore something else had to control speed, it was either done through a servo and throttle cable (prior to drive by wire) or in the one year in 2006 where it was MEFI 4 and it had throttle by wire which had the worst speed control. The best solution for the 2006 speed control would be Dakota's fix, IMHO.

In 2007 and newer, its MEFI 5. Its controlled by the ECU, so you just need something to talk to the ECU. Zero Off is the best option (I think).

I would check out Zero off. It should work flawlessly is my guess.

Hopefully, someone else has experience with Zero Off.

[Stingreye]

By the way, I have no idea if Zero off works on any MEFI5 Tige's, its just where I would look first

[Stingreye]

https://www.zerogps.com/about-us/faqs

My guess is zero off won't work.... otherwise others would likely have done it. https://www.zerogps.com/about-us/faqs
It requires an E-controls ecu (not sure what that is or who uses it).

[DirtNasty]

hopefully someone else can chime in or gets word of the thread.

[IDBoating]

I know enough to be dangerous on this topic and I'll offer what I can.

The big dividing line here is mechanical vs. electronic throttle. If you have a big thick cable coming back from your throttle lever, that moves stuff around on your throttle body, you have a mechanical throttle and you'll need a system that works with that. Perfect Pass has such systems, as just one example.

If your throttle lever has nothing but wires coming from it, you have an electronic throttle - and your cruise control is operated by your ECU, directly or indirectly.

Direct cruise means the ECU itself receives your set/faster/slower inputs and manages the throttle itself, using the paddlewheel signal. That's your closed loop of control: The paddlewheel pulse train indicates speed, the ECU compares that to the desired speed, and adjusts the throttle up or down by moving the motor on the throttle body (air) and changing the fuel injector pulse widths (fuel). Lather, rinse, repeat. This is a very basic, inexpensive version of cruise control since it's already included in the ECU firmware. Boat manufacturers need only provide a few switches to send the faster/slower/set signals to the ECU's input pins.

Indirect cruise means the ECU is still controlling the throttle body and fuel injectors, but instead of the ECU measuring speed and making decisions, something else does and then tells the ECU what to do. ZeroOff works like this, although the lines blur a bit because E-Controls makes the ECU along with ZeroOff. But you can think of it this way: The GPS reads the speed, and sends commands to the ECU for "more" or "less" throttle.

The bottom line is, the aftermarket cruise control you need is driven by the generation of engine that you have. If you have a carbed engine, you need a purely mechanical cruise system. If you have an early fuel injection engine, you need one of those cable-driven systems that physically moves the same linkage on the cable as does your throttle lever. If you have a later fuel injection engine, with full MEFI and CAN network, you need a later, intelligent system that knows how to talk to a CAN-equipped engine and give it commands to control the throttle based on what the cruise system believes is necessary.

For the original poster's 2008 questions, I don't know what era engine you might have. When you say "electric throttle cable" do you mean an electronic throttle lever? I would find the engine plate, get the exact model and serial number, and call the various vendors to see if their systems work on your engine. The model year of the hull doesn't equal the engine model year... lots of "2008" boats have 2007 engines in them (due to stock sitting around), or later engines (due to engine replacement), etc. Trust only the plate on the engine itself.

[dakota4ce]

I thought the only change from MEFI4 to MEFI5 on the Marine Power motors was the elimination of the TAC module--therefore the signal from the potentiometer (PPS some call it) on the throttle goes directly to the ECU/throttle body itself. On MEFI4 it makes a stop at a TAC module first. Either way, the mechanical movement of the throttle lever is converted to the electrical signal by the potentiometer (PPS) on the back of the throttle lever.

Basically I repositioned the potentiometer to a bracket in the motor compartment, and then hooked a cable driven speed controller to that mechanical device. I am sure most of you are familiar with what I did.

However, I thought the MEFI5 system worked like the MEFI4 it just was cleaner because of the elimination of the TAC module.

Someone with more knowledge needs to step in, I feel a little like I am spreading rumors.

I also recommend that the OP call Marine Power directly and talk to the technical support guys (might be Eddie?) on the matter. He was helpful to me. For sure.

You could then swap out your speedo with a 5" Hydrophase unit with a white face and it would be slicker than snot!

Hopefully you can devise a clean and simple solution. Good luck!

[DirtNasty]

thanks guys... Im goin to get home and get out to the shop and look at all these parts and see what Ive got. Also talking with ID about modifying my tige switch and putting in my own that way im out less money. Im actually ok with the factory setup, its just that the buttons wont work to change speed so its hell trying to surf. i dont really need all the features of the aftermarket ones. that will be a loast resort. Im hoping ID will help me out and I'll have a new thread to post with a good alternative method. It was mentioned by chrissnow that its possible to modify this way on page 4 of this thread

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ight=speed+set

[dakota4ce]

If you're just having trouble with the buttons, that should be an easy fix for some sort of reliable switch.

[ChrisSnow]

thanks guys... Im goin to get home and get out to the shop and look at all these parts and see what Ive got. Also talking with ID about modifying my tige switch and putting in my own that way im out less money. Im actually ok with the factory setup, its just that the buttons wont work to change speed so its hell trying to surf. i dont really need all the features of the aftermarket ones. that will be a loast resort. Im hoping ID will help me out and I'll have a new thread to post with a good alternative method. It was mentioned by chrissnow that its possible to modify this way on page 4 of this thread

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ight=speed+set

Let me know if you need any help.
Fixing your old one should simple or a replacement isn't difficult if you understand electronics.



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[killerbren]

Let me know if you need any help.
Fixing your old one should simple or a replacement isn't difficult if you understand electronics.

Chris, did you ever end up building a replacement panel? If so how did it turn out?

[ChrisSnow]

Chris, did you ever end up building a replacement panel? If so how did it turn out?

I didn't need to in the end. My repairs made it through the year :-)

If you reused the pcb you could use any momentary switches you like.

The replacement I had in mind would be indestructible but require the hole in the dash widening a bit since the switches would poke through.

I was going to use nice stainless buttons with built-in LED's. Mounted on either an aluminium or stainless oval.

If you wish I could talk you through it properly.

I also have a few ideas that mean you could use normal electronic cruise controllers with these models that historically people had to fit mechanical linkages to.(mefi 4).

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