TAPS 21

[UNSTUCK]

Well, full disclosure here:

In a word: terrible

In a few words: We headed to Sand Hollow in St. George this past weekend for our test run and daughters birthday party. Over the winter we picked up another ballast bag so we had extra weight. Last summer we had two 250 pound bags as our only ballast. With a full boat I was able to easily go ropeless when surfing. If it was just myself, wife and kids ( three young kids) I could not go ropeless.

So anyways we get out there and start filling bags. At first we filled the two 250 bags on the port side and the new 750 bag on the starboard side. We couldn't fill it full, but noticed the boat was sitting very level, which we were happy about. Once under way I immediately was disappointed. The entire wave was a white frothy mess. This was with the TAPS 21 all the way down to surf the starboard side, Taps at like 4-3 and speed around 10-10.5. I played around for a bit with the settings, leaving the TAPS 21 all the way down though. By the time we hit 13mph the wave was very clean. I jumped in the water to try it out. There was no push at all. The rope was tight the whole time. While surfing, I had my wife start to slow down and start moving the Taps closer to 3-2. We were about 11 mph at this point and I could feel the wave start to push me just a little. Just for fun I had her raise TAPS 21 all the way up. The push was even harder then. Then she moved Taps to 1. I was able to toss the rope. I should mention that that did not all happen during my first pull, but was a combination of a few pulls. I was so excited to try my new (to me) Brigade Tamarindo skim board. Even with our best wave of the weekend I couldn't toss the rope. I had to go back to my Jobe Fade with a thruster set up to get more push before I could toss the rope.

Our best wave came from having TAPS 21 all the way up, taps at 1ish, speed at 11 and one of the 250 pound bags on top of the 750 bag. The other 250 pound bag was in the walkway to the bow. So a basic listed set up. One of the main ideas of building this system was to keep the boat levelish. I was a bit surprised at how much the boat listed over with TAPS 21 all the way down and even weight. I guess I was a bit prepared for that though, after reading the TAPS 3 thread where it was mentioned. I was very happy that the boat still seemed to steer well. With my wife driving, who is VERY nervous to do so, she had no complaints about controlling the boat.
The lake got pretty full on Saturday, so I was able to see lots of other surfers in the water. I saw MANY Nautique G's. The rest were Master Crafts and then me as the only Tige that I saw. That whole day I only saw 2 or 3 other surfers going ropeless. I did not see one clean wave. They all looked like mine! I was so happy! And confused.
So because of that I have not lost hope yet. I'm sure I need more ballast. I'm just not sure how much more my 21v will be okay with? Can I do 1000 in each rear locker? Will it help if I do? Regardless of weight though, I would have thought that TAPS 21 would give me a clean wave. It may have been small, do to the ballast I was running, but it should have been clean, right?

I'm going back to Sand Hollow the weekend of June 4-5 with my three brothers. That will give me twice the people ballast as this past weekend, so I'll be able to try all that again, but with more weight in the boat. I still think I need more though. Anyone in Salt lake City through St. George have a bag or two I could borrow that weekend? I will also play with more and less ballast in the bow. Any other ideas that I need to try?

I'm not going to lie, I was dreaming of a competition ready wave, but would have been very happy with a clean surfable, small wave.

Disappointed, but not hopeless, yet.

[JohnnieMo]

Man - I was sure hoping this would just work.

The devil could be in the details. It could be that those tabs are optimized for the newer hulls. Could be positioning. But it could also be that you just need to tweak. The TAPS3 boats take a lot of tweaking too.

600lbs per side is a touch light I suppose, but should still be decent.

That flange on the bottom of the tabs always has me thinking. To me, the flange will induce some 'slip' to the stern of the boat. It is not what causes the listing. I keep debating whether those are necessary or not. Obviously since most manufacturers are doing it, they must be necessary. They will obviously create extra drag which would slow down the one side of the boat, hence create a bit of a change in boat heading (as opposed to boat course).

This may simply be something that needs more tinkering for your hull. Sorry it wasn't a slam dunk.

[Z3CO23]

I'll throw my .02 in here. This is all speculation on my part. I'm not familiar with your boat at all but based on some basic research I did this is my take.

Your boat has a basic dry weight of 3450. When you compare that to a present day model... it's closest in basic dry weight to the RZR at 3100.

Current ballast system for 2016 with Taps 3 for the RZR is 400 front and dual 600 rear.

A base starting point for Taps 3 weighting is full rear and 35% front so that would be 140 lbs.

If you could get your hands on a similar 750 like you have now and fill them both the same I bet you would need your bow weight right at about 250, which you already have a bag for. I think that would be a good starting point.

Now to the taps 21 plates...... The factory taps 3 plates have 15 total positions. 15 being fully stowed and 1 being fully deployed. Starting point from Tige was to be at taps at 4 and taps 3 at 4 and move to tune from there. I may have missed it but I assume your controlling the plates with a standard lenco switch. You would have to figure out where "taps 3 at 4" is with our tabs and your lenco switch.

The taps 2 plate on the newer current boats is huge as well.... even way bigger than my 2011 taps 2 plate. That could be a factor for you here.... maybe you could fabricate a bigger taps 2 plate.

Super cool project, would love to see your get it dialed.

[BJM]

Hang in there buddy. It takes lots of time to dial any boat in. Much less a homemade system. I feel like every time out I figure out something new. Today I learned our Z3 with AVX does not like much off-side weight to keep the goofy wave clean and long.

I have a few people that I will take out on "dial in days." These are guys that are good riders and have lots of patience. There is nothing more frustrating than feeling like the group is waiting on you.

Find some guys who like to surf and have them hold on to the rope and run those tabs through all the positions. Make sure your tab on the surf side is up high enough to not interfere with the wake face.

Good luck and enjoy dialing it in. That is a fun process in itself.

Billy

[Germaine Marine]

I'll throw my .02 in here. This is all speculation on my part. I'm not familiar with your boat at all but based on some basic research I did this is my take.

Your boat has a basic dry weight of 3450. When you compare that to a present day model... it's closest in basic dry weight to the RZR at 3100.

Current ballast system for 2016 with Taps 3 for the RZR is 400 front and dual 600 rear.

A base starting point for Taps 3 weighting is full rear and 35% front so that would be 140 lbs.

If you could get your hands on a similar 750 like you have now and fill them both the same I bet you would need your bow weight right at about 250, which you already have a bag for. I think that would be a good starting point.

Now to the taps 21 plates...... The factory taps 3 plates have 15 total positions. 15 being fully stowed and 1 being fully deployed. Starting point from Tige was to be at taps at 4 and taps 3 at 4 and move to tune from there. I may have missed it but I assume your controlling the plates with a standard lenco switch. You would have to figure out where "taps 3 at 4" is with our tabs and your lenco switch.

The taps 2 plate on the newer current boats is huge as well.... even way bigger than my 2011 taps 2 plate. That could be a factor for you here.... maybe you could fabricate a bigger taps 2 plate.

Super cool project, would love to see your get it dialed.

I would throw all comparisons out the window with this project. Everything is completely different from hull to plates so using any info based off of boats with taps 3 is not going to produce for you. I would say you will have better luck looking at aftermarket plate mfgs that are being used on older tiges and go from there. Like others have said, hang in there and keep experimenting with weight. I think its going to take a big amount in the rear to get that thing to produce, I would say anything less then 1000k in each locker is going to be lackluster. I would start there and then get an inclinometer off of the the apps store or android place or wherever and work backwards.....

1.Big weight in the rear
2. 3-400 up front
3. Plates all at 0 and 1 position of movement at a time until you see 4-5 degrees

Or, push it over 4-5 degrees and add a little plate in and see what that does.

But again, I think weight is your first hurdle, get to 1k minimum and report back

[Thegerman618]

Just to clarify unstuck, you are dropping the plate opposite the side of surfing? H20sk8er00 on here has the exact boat, and spend hours surfing and tuning the wave with him, he runs 1100 jumbo vdrive sacs in each locker and 600 bow. They all get pretty darn close to full, so you should be able to run those 1100's. That year model was a tank in weight, compared to other models in its class. 600 up front is fine for a listed wave but I would think 400 should do the trick on a level boat with Taps 21. I played a round with surf tabs a while back, if you have the time this is what I would try after days and hours of testing on his boat:

Heavy as you can get in the stern. 1500+ evenly weighted. Swimstep should be at least 1-2" under water.
Start at 400 in the bow ( length won't be the problem the tabs will give you length, it's the push as you mentioned)
Opposite surf side tab all the way down.
Standard Taps 2-4
Speed (wherever it cleans up best)

If the speed is too fast, or wave is too flat, adjust TAPS 21 for optimal wave. Or More weight in the stern, if by chance the wave is still to flat or lacking push slide your bow weight backwards till it cleans up don't drain the weight just move it to a different location it may end up next to the driver.

You built a custom 1 off system, expect a custom and fully tuned wave but it will take time to dial it in. Don't give up.

Would love to see some pics or video of the wave. Even if it's ugly now, just by seeing what the water is doing you can tell what it needs.

[UNSTUCK]

I'll work on getting another 750 bag. One in each rear corner plus a 250 in each should do the trick. I'll have my brothers move around the bow to do the rest of the tuning. They are each over 200. So three of them plus me at 180. That hast to be enough to tell if this system will work.

One question I have, when guys say the rub rail should be in the water, or in this case my swim deck should be underwater, does that mean while surfing or sitting stationary?

Can't wait to try again.

[Thegerman618]

Stationary the swim step will be under, and for your application evenly weighted. It won't be when under way (I don't think at least, never ran that much weight evenly weighted). As for the rub rail mine is usually under both sitting and while under way. While stopped my swimstep on the surf side is maybe shin deep so 8-10in under water maybe never really measured. That 21v though at least with my buddies the rub rail is just slightly out of the water when at rest but while under way it's under water.

[Thegerman618]

If your gonna be near Havasu for Memorial Day I will bring a spare 1100 jumbo that you can use, just get it back to me when you can or if your gonna be at the reunion we can link up then.

[Z3CO23]

I'll work on getting another 750 bag. One in each rear corner plus a 250 in each should do the trick. I'll have my brothers move around the bow to do the rest of the tuning. They are each over 200. So three of them plus me at 180. That hast to be enough to tell if this system will work.

One question I have, when guys say the rub rail should be in the water, or in this case my swim deck should be underwater, does that mean while surfing or sitting stationary?

Can't wait to try again.

Your swim deck is definitely going to be under water a few inches when weighted as you have described above once the boat reaches surf speed the swim deck will be up an out of the water. There's been some good feedback in the thread.... I'm looking forward to your progress.

[UNSTUCK]

Dang, wish I was going to be close to Havasu. If you'd be willing to ship it, on my dime of course, that would be awesome. I could ship it right back to you or return it at the reunion, but then you'd be without it most of the summer.

[Germaine Marine]

If your gonna be near Havasu for Memorial Day I will bring a spare 1100 jumbo that you can use, just get it back to me when you can or if your gonna be at the reunion we can link up then.

Ill be there we should meet up! Always awesome to meet people in the tige family......

[Thegerman618]

Unstuck absolutely I can ship it to you. Don't worry about it it's a spare bag that i keep around for stuff just like this. I run Enzo's now. I will PM you with my contact.

Elevatedconcept for sure, i will be out with DP Powell on his boat leaving my 24ve home this trip. I will pm you as well with my contact, hit us up when you get there. I will be there Friday Morning-Sunday Evening leaving early Monday.

[water1982]

I can't understand why you have so much difficulty to get a good wake , I have a 2001 21v , running 800 lbs in each rear locker, 400 in the middle of the bow with my cheap *** surf plate and my wake is huge and clean!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[UNSTUCK]

I can't understand why you have so much difficulty to get a good wake , I have a 2001 21v , running 800 lbs in each rear locker, 400 in the middle of the bow with my cheap *** surf plate and my wake is huge and clean!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Pics or it didn't happen! ��

In reality, I'm thinking my weight was more like 500 in each rear and none in the front for my testing. I filled my two 250's on one side and filled my 750 on the other side until the boat was level. I have no other bags. Then it was just my small family on the boat so not much help from them weight wise.
Brad is sending me his jumbo bag to use. I'll then be able to fill the 750 and a 250 on one side then fill his 1100 until the boat is level. That leaves me with one 250 bag and three 200 pound brothers to move around.

Just for fun, and because I'm board (my car project is at paint) I'll be building one of those HOD surf gates this week. I will be cussing if that is what ends up giving us the wave we want.