Hey Waveologists! Looking for DIY surf gate input

[surfidaho]

I figure I will put this out here for posterity. Because I can't leave well enough alone I built a surf gate this past weekend. I only got to run it in one configuration and I have some questions that I am hoping some of you can answer to save me time messing around with it (cause I'd rather just surf!). I have a 2001 2300v, perfect pass, FAE and surf flap. My listed setup is a custom bag in the port locker/under seat = 1470 lbs, bow bag with starboard leg rolled under = 300+ lbs, and a 400 lb bag in the bow walkway. I have been stoked on the wave this setup produces... but, well, you know Here is what that gets me:
no gate.jpg
Speed of 10.5, taps at 6.

I was hoping to eek out a little more pocket with a gate as others have noted. Nothing more really, we have no major issues with running a listed boat. Not sure that a gate will really achieve this but I just had to try. So I built one. Its 22" long and 13" high and extends above the platform about 2" and below the spray pocket about 2". It is sitting at an angle of 22 deg from the swim deck. Looks like this:
20150823_135301.jpg

So I ran this gate with the ballast setup listed above this weekend. You can see its effect on the offside in the picture below. The steering was horrible! The wave face was super clean but the wave was certainly less steep than without the gate. The boat had to work harder (higher RPMs) to maintain speed (cause there is a honking gate hanging off the back of course!) I think (maybe wishful) I gained a little bit of depth in the pocket but not enough to justify the horrible steering. Did I mention the steering was horrible? Here is the result:
with gate2.jpg
Speed of 10.5, taps maxed out, approx same conditions as previous wave pic.

I am now thinking to make the gate adjustable to see if there is a setting where I get results and the steering does not suck so bad. Any input on an angle of deployment? Seems like if it was reduced it would improve the steering. Or perhaps it should not extend below the spray pocket? I am also curious about running significant offside weight to make the weighting more equal (This I will try on the next outing). However it would seem if I did that it would engage the gate more and increase the negative effect on the steering? Finally, am I just chasing my tail here? NSS style? A newer boat is not on the horizon but tinkering sure is fun

Cheers!

[Wakeman22]

Very interesting. You surely need to size and angle it correctly to maximize the wake and minimize the adverse reactions that it has on the boat.

By looking at the pictures it appears that the front of the wave is much larger and steeper. I would want to surf it.

[bsreid]

A buddy of ours has built one on his inboard Calabria. He says he uses only 1200 pounds of ballast and a hull full of sand and the wave is so much nicer and a lot longer, then without the surf gate. He has had many prototypes and tried many different ideas.

[BJM]

I think it is hard for a gate system to work on a v-hull. I tried one our old Sanger and the results were not impressive.

I believe it lets too much water under and inside it. If you look at the Malibu style boat, they are more like a flat bottom john boat in the back. The gate does not have as much water sneaking under and inside of it. The gate widens the width of the back and then delays convergence.

I think the new taps match the angle of the V to create lift and cause list toward the surf side (just from a quick glance).

I'm no hydrodynamics expert by any means. Please take this with a grain of salt as it is only my theory. I built the gate to tinker just like you were doing. I was hoping it would let us remove a bag from the seats on the surf side. It didn't and I can relate to the poor handling you are talking about!

[turbonine]

I would for try running that thing evenly weighted, with maybe 200# to 400# extra on the surf side to counterweight the driver and prop rotation.

It looks like in your picture that the gate really isn't doing anything since you are listed.

[Z3CO23]

I would for try running that thing evenly weighted, with maybe 200# to 400# extra on the surf side to counterweight the driver and prop rotation.

It looks like in your picture that the gate really isn't doing anything since you are listed.

This is what I was thinking. If your going to run a gate, why list it? Wave looks great but it don't think it looks substantially better than you normal listed setup.

[jimidemo]

I thought the gate was to not have to list? Can you lost a pic from the rear angle of your boat. I am looking at designing one for our 21v. I was going to go 20 degrees and not extend below the boat. I am interested in your attachment to your platform.

[surfidaho]

Thanks for the input gang! I absolutely agree I need to run it more evenly weighted. After a few test runs I popped the contraption off and we surfed like normal. It certainly moved some water though. I am hoping to figure out an angle that generates results without destroying the ability to turn. I am thinking that with my blade being so large I can significantly reduce the angle and still gain benefits. I read today that Malibu only runs 8-15 deg when actuated, anyone know if that is true? I hope to have an adjustable version by the weekend but they keep bugging me with this thing they call "work".
Most of the important variables were the same in those two photos but the videographer changed so I will mount the cam to the hull to have consistency in the next runs. I think the wave looking larger is mostly due to camera angle though I did have the taps higher with the contraption installed. I have several theories about the fluid dynamics involved, but every time I say "fluid dynamics" I feel like I should make a cocktail. Kinda like college

[Captainkurk72]

Hey Waveologists! Looking for DIY surf gate input

Here is mine and I have no issues turning. I was aware of others having the issue but got lucky. I dont have measurements with me and boat and gate are four hours away. I will be back over Labor Day and will post angle and dimensions. As pictures show its not very big and angle slight. I hold in place with ratchet strap and have add marine carpet where it comes in contact with boat. I used marine grade plywood cause it was left over from trailer repairs.

I have a Enzo bag port side, 320 lb bag starboard locker and 320 bag in bow. I fill the 320's and then fill Enzo till I list slightly (700lbs). With gate the wave is great and hardly any list. Take gate off and wave is trash. My winter project is to install custom Ballast but I will still be using the gate cause I like not having to list to the extreme of being uncomfortable.






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[surfidaho]

Thanks captain! Proof that bigger is not always better. I would be interested to know your gates measurements!

[Winetige]

Here is my story:
I was very unhappy with my goofy wave on my z1 so decided to make my own surfgate. The measurments for the gate is 20 x 10 and was just an educated guess from a plan i found on the axis owners website. I made the gate out of hdpe and took about 4 hours total. After about a days worth of testing, playing with the weight, the goofy wave is now money! Length of the wave is 6 to 7 feet longer with a way nicer transition and super smooth compared to the old wave. My z1 does not have the vx, but compared to my buddy's 14 z1 with vx, my wave is many times better than his - higher,longer, and smoother. Also, because the gate only sticks out about 18 inches from the transom ( because of the step ), we have no problems with steering - can't really tell its there. Here is my weighting scheme: 800 lbs up front plus 180 in lead, 1250 in the starboard corner ( wake 9 bags ) and about 500 in the port corner. I'll get pics if you want - we haven't been out since the fires in Washington state started last week and our valley is engulfed in smoke.

[Wakeman22]

Here is my story:
I was very unhappy with my goofy wave on my z1 so decided to make my own surfgate. The measurments for the gate is 20 x 10 and was just an educated guess from a plan i found on the axis owners website. I made the gate out of hdpe and took about 4 hours total. After about a days worth of testing, playing with the weight, the goofy wave is now money! Length of the wave is 6 to 7 feet longer with a way nicer transition and super smooth compared to the old wave. My z1 does not have the vx, but compared to my buddy's 14 z1 with vx, my wave is many times better than his - higher,longer, and smoother. Also, because the gate only sticks out about 18 inches from the transom ( because of the step ), we have no problems with steering - can't really tell its there. Here is my weighting scheme: 800 lbs up front plus 180 in lead, 1250 in the starboard corner ( wake 9 bags ) and about 500 in the port corner. I'll get pics if you want - we haven't been out since the fires in Washington state started last week and our valley is engulfed in smoke.

We all love pics on this site.

And we all know the other rule...

If it is not on video or pictures, it did not happen.

[surfidaho]

So I have learned a few things since my last post. I will cut to the chase and say that I now think that this idea provides enough result to keep experimenting First, I made my contraption adjustable. Since 22 deg was way to much I made the gate adjustable to 15,11,7, and 3 deg with respect to what I figure the hull angle is. Here is the contraption:
20150828_095700.jpg

When on the lake and waiting for some of the research team to show up we deployed the gate at all of the above angles with no ballast at a speed of 10.5. The results were impressive. The wake went from nothing to looking surfable with just the gate. In our trials we found that 11 and 7 deg looked the best and gave the largest usable range of the TAPS without shortening the pocket too much. I wish we had taken pics or video, but alas, we failed in that respect. The next step, after we had our team of waveologists aboard, was to load ballast. I loaded the 650 bow sack as full as I could, the 1470 port locker bag full, and an 1100 in the starboard locker full. This looked pretty good but the boat did not plane out well. I added a 400 in the bow walkway and the boat planed out much better and the wave gained some length. This was at an angle of 11 and speed of 10.5. Then we switched the gate to 7 deg and all still looked about the same. Enough of this! Time to surf it! This is what we came up with:
gate 2.1.jpg
Speed 10.5, 7 deg angle, TAPS at 2

The picture does not do it justice. On first glance it looks about like what we got with the listed gate setup. Look closely at the position of the wave against my knee though and where I am on the transition. You can also note the position of the rub rail in the two pics. Unfortunately the light was poor from being overcast and really quite smokey that day (since the entire West is on fire, sigh). Anyway, we gained maybe 2-4 ft of pocket. However, that was not the only improvement. The wave itself was a different shape. Without the gate we had a concave transition that got really steep on top, which I thought was solid. With the gate it was one smooth, tall transition... which we all thought was awesome. The wave gained amplitude over the entire length as well. Previously the curl would break on your calf and you knew you were at the back of the pocket. With the gate it now broke on your knee. With TAPS at 2 we maxed out the length I believe. We could run all the way to max TAPS with a very clean face and the wave gained height but sacrificing length. We also gained push. Even our heaviest rider, 250 lbs ish, was able to drop way back in the pocket.

As for the steering... it went from terrible at 22 deg to just really sh*tty at 7 deg. Still not acceptable in my book However, the results were impressive enough that I will now build a series of different size and shape gates to see if I can get it into the acceptable zone. I am positive after seeing everyone elses info above (THANKS TEAM!) that I can reduce the size of the gate and still get results. I am also thinking about building a gate that matches up with the spray pocket profile to see what that can achieve. In addition, I will add more weight to the starboard side to equal out the weighting a bit more. Fuel consumption was not good (I did double the ballast). Previously we were in the 4-5 GPH range. Now we are more like 7-8 GPH. A more aggressive prop should be able help that out. Gonna call Acme tomorrow to inquire about it.

Cheers!

[ohioriverwakesurfer]

Is your surf gate on the opposite side of the boat your surfing on, or the same side your surfing on? How are you fastening to the swikm deck?

[Captainkurk72]

Is your surf gate on the opposite side of the boat your surfing on, or the same side your surfing on? How are you fastening to the swikm deck?

Surf gate goes on the opposite side your surfing on.
I use a ratchet strap and from swim deck bracket underneath to transom eye making sure the strap contacts the gate pushing it towards the boat.
I have seen others that put a eye bolt on the gate and use a turnbuckle from gate to transom eye tie down. It doesn't take much to hold it there.


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