Ballast Mods: Pros Vs Cons

[chpthril]

So with all the mods we make to our boats, we are looking to improve some aspect of the functionality. As most have discovered, with any aftermarket mod, there will always be some degree of negative trade off. What are we willing to live with, providing the positive is what we were looking for?

This is spurred by the latest discussion of Z3 surf sac mod and seat lift. As acknowledged, we are on version 3.0 in an attempt to provide the most ballast, all hidden, with as little negative impact to the boat, as possible. Right now, 3.0 is 1200 lbs, 300 lbs more than what tige currently offers. When filled to the point of bulging, there is some seat lift. Stop the filling when the seat start to pop, and I think the sac is better than 90% full.

The fix for the seat lift is to continue to reduce the height of the leg and the width of the sac, as tige has done, at the expense of weight. Kicking this around with others, we have an idea that may reduce the seat lift, while maintaining the current dimensions. More on that later.

So, im really curious to hear feedback from others as to their expectation, when a serious mod is done. This cna be a boat, an off road mudder or rock crawler or that weekend street legal track car. If the mod achieves what you were after, can you live with what degree of negative.

[mnpracing]

IMHO, regarding the seat bulging issue (which mine has), I would rather that the bag be appropriately sized to not bulge the seat when full (and not unduly push on the engine dividers as well). It would seem to me that under-filling the bag to compensate for the seat lift would result in the same amount of water as in an appropriately sized bag; if it doesn't then the fitment of the bag is incorrect. I tend to want the best of all worlds when I'm paying a ton of money (to me) for something. Seat lift and engine divider bulging is something I expect more from an off-the-rack bag (i.e. the standard sizes from Fly High). But when I pay for a "custom" set-up, I honestly expect it to fit perfectly, not to big, not too small, but exactly right....now I use a large game cutting board under the port seats to hold the bag below the level of the seat bottom, which is fairly ghetto if you ask me....

[duffymahoney]

More bulge to the better for me My seats don't bulge too bad since I always have people sitting on them while filling. I move people to surf side while filling and switching.

[sandm]

i agree with mnpracing although do have this to say... I have a "custom" sac for my 22ve that pushes up the regular side seat when full. I do agree that it would have been nice to have the bag sized correctly to not do this, however also understand there are some economies of scale to create a bag that fits many boats, although not all ideally.

to answer the op's initial question, you can't really say what degree of negativity without understanding EXACTLY what the mod is and what the tradeoffs are..

my old evo9 had a methanol injection kit. you had to check the meth tank at every fillup. if it ran dry and you hit the 32psi it was running, it would grenade the motor. to me, a great tradeoff to check the tank at each fillup as the added 80whp were worth it. to someone else, the tradeoff would not be worth any amount of additional hp as it was an inconvenience.

my .02..

[chpthril]

it would have been nice to have the bag sized correctly to not do this, however also understand there are some economies of scale to create a bag that fits many boats, although not all ideally.

Just to clarify, your 22ve/RZ2 custom sac is not a universal custom sac, none of ours are. Yes, you may be experiencing some seat rise, but that sacs was developed specifically for your boat. The W712 Enzo would be a one size fits all. But not my 24Ve/RZ4 sac, Z1 sac, Z3 sac, 24V sac, 22V sac. No need to do a custom for the R20 and RZR as Tige already designed a sac thats fits them the best.

But I do agree. It would be far more economical to stock and sell everyone the W712.

[IDBoating]

My solution for the "rising seat" (which my huge custom sacs can definitely cause) is to install a little cross-piece of Starboard across the underside of the opening under the seat. This holds the bag down and prevents it from lifting the seat, while still permitting you to fill the sacs to maximum. By little piece I'm talking about a strip perhaps two inches wide and whatever length you need to cross the opening with enough extra length on each end for the screws that hold it in place.

If you need access to the space for gear storage when not ballasted, install it with a single screw on one side that then allows it to pivot. Swing it out of the way (under the fiberglass) when you need access, and swing it across the opening when ballasting on that side. The fiberglass takes the pressure either way, so you don't really need mechanical attachment except on the one side anyway.

As with all such fasteners, be sure to protect the sacs from puncture by the screws/etc. I like using acorn nuts and proper length screws so they present a nice, round surface to the sac.

Boat's in storage so I can't provide photos, sorry. But the concept is mind-numbingly simple so hopefully photos aren't required!

[Greeko]

Sacs.... Doesn't matter how custom they are will conform to the shape they are given... The problem is that they also bulge if they are a bigger sac. The wider the sac..the higher the bulge. Its just physics!

Personally I would follow the path of WABoating and install a piece of plexi or plastic (almost like a wind damn...Bag damn lol) to prevent seat lifting.. I would much rather have more weight and a PROPER wave with the seats popping off than a smaller wave with my seats in tact sitting on the fiberglass...

Just my opinion.

[JohnnieMo]

I'm willing to go pretty far on the modification bandwagon so long as my boat has improved function and doesn't become a Frankenstein.

My dad is the worst for modifying things. He will glue sponges to his armrest because he needs the comfort. He even glued a wristwatch to the dash of our last boat because it didn't have a clock in it. So there has to be a limit. You can see it in the picture here.... bottom right of the dash... gold walmart watch. Just beneath the phone holder glued to the wall, and just behind the soup can lid stuck to the steering wheel.



Now you know why I own two boats.

[SBM1234]

^^^^That is so awesome!

[Ewok]

For me it depends. When I mod I try to keep it looking as stock as possible, or maybe cleaner than stock. As a side effect to ballast and a nice wave, I don't mind putting the rub rail in the water, but it might make other uncomfortable. I actually use the cooler under the seat in my boat and I use the storage under the other bench too. That's why I went with big bags without the arm, and because of that I don't have a seat lift problem.

[Stingreye]

Seat lift really hasn't been much of a problem for me. My rear bags fit the rear compartments fully but the fittings will open the lockers when complete full. So I fill see it open, hit drain for 2 seconds and its good to go. The other difference might be that my seats open differently on my old 24V. The hinge is on the outside of the seat so there is some friction between the seat bottom and back that needs to be overcome before the seat lifts. It happened in my gen 1 ballast install where i had two sacs but then I was using one switch and the underseat sac was full first so it kept overflowing until the rear sac was full.

I also imagine, a 50 lb bag of lead will solve that pesky seat life problem.