2009 Z1 ballast pumps

[chpthril]

[ATTACH]39304[/ATTACH][ATTACH]39305[/ATTACH][ATTACH]39306[/ATTACH]

Those big round white things are check valves. You need to remove one and see if they are flapper or plunger type.

Those do not look factory installed IMO. I can tell you that the 2 rear ballast fill pumps are likely air locking due to the pump orientation, hose routing and those check-valves.

[Stingreye]

EDIT - Mike beat me to it! Listen to him, he designed my system.

One of the other ballast guru's will likely comment but I think the big white check valves might be the problem. I don't think I have seen that style used that close to the pump and I am not sure if they are style that might require too much pressure to open. The check valves I got from Chpthrl in my package definitely looked and operated differently than those.

Plus the capped pump! We have to repurpose that pump for you. At minimum, use it as a second fill pump to the side you surf on the most.

[ShoreS]

Sorry not the best angles, pumps are hard to take take pictures since the tower is down and I only have a little hole to peek through. First picture is port side, second picture is 1 capped and 1 bow, third is starboard.

[ShoreS]

Dealer installed the piggy back setup. Other than that I don't know, assume it was factory.

[chpthril]

Dealer installed the piggy back setup. Other than that I don't know, assume it was factory.

I know the base system was factory, but was it a Tige dealer?

[ShoreS]

Correct a Tige dealer installed the piggy back bags as part of the deal when purchasing the boat.

[lee]

I am having issues filling the hard tanks and bags (on all three hard tanks and three bags). The dealer said they fill fine at the shop and will take ~8min, but when I try at the lake the hard tanks seem to fill a little bit (can empty a little water out, only takes 20 secs) and the bag never start filling. I can hear (all) the pumps running. Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

How long did you run the pumps in the fill position?

[ShoreS]

I started by running them for 10-15 min idle. Then got tired of waiting, figuring they were not going to fill again. So we started surfing. While surfing I ran them for 45min a couple time and would check them now and then. No luck. Then every once in a while I would try and drain. They would drain for 10-15 sec.

[chpthril]

So after running the fill pumps for a couple hours, the drain flow comes to s dribble after 17 seconds?

Take out those spring loaded plunger check valves from Lowes or Home Depot

[lee]

When you get to the lake take the pump head out of housing and see if water flows out, if so it is some from pump to bag.

[ShoreS]

I will remove the valves tomorrow to see what kind they are. Would it be fine to remove the valves completely for now, then order new (correct ones). I like the idea of utilizing the unused pump.

This is my first boat, didn't realize ballast would start out to be such a headache. Seems to be a poor install.

Yes after running the pumps for an hour and then switched to drain, water will shoot out for 10-15 sec and then stop.

I really appreciate all the help

[chpthril]

I would remove those valves all together. Then sea trial the boat to see if there is any passive draining through the fill plumbing, which is why those would have been added. I would first try to eliminate the passive draining by working on the fill hose routing. In many cases, we are successful at that and no check valves are needed. If they are needed, there are far better designs that will prevent the passive draining and not introduce a restriction.

Ive never been a fan of a typical piggyback ballast install. Too inefficient to have the tank's overflow pushed into the sac to fill it.

[empty_boat]

In my opinion the white check valves are the problem. I have seen the same thing before and had the same problem. The check valves were probably installed because (like cheap says) the hoses were routed wrong. Normally to prevent back draining you can route the hose up higher than the highest point of water level in the bag. Sometimes it is still necessary to install a siphon breaker at the highest point to prevent water from siphoning back out after the tank and bag are full. The siphon breaker lets a little air in and allows water to drain back down the fill hose to "lake level" so it doesn't continue to "pull" water down. I am sure you know this but the aerator pumps allow some flow through them when turned off. If you feel the need for check valves to prevent back draining then they need to be up near where water enters the bag or hard tank. This prevents water from "standing" and holding pressure on the check valve and holding it closed. Water standing above the check valve holds it closed and then (especially) when the valve is that close to the pump it doesn't allow the pump to "flood" with water when you put the boat in the lake. If you put the boat in the lake and crack the pumps in their current setup they will flood and probably start pumping. But the next time you go out they will air lock again. The water drains out of those pumps every time you take the boat out of the water. But when the check valve is right at the pump the water above the check valve sits there and the weight of the water prevents the check valve from opening, allowing the pump to flood and pump water. The former owner may have had a problem with ballast drain down and the tech put the check valves in to stop that, but may have created another problem.

Once again this is just my opinion but have seen it before.

[ShoreS]

Alright, so I removed the check valves (they were spring loaded). Was able to get out to the lake on friday for some sufing (hoping with a nice wave this time). I primed the pumps and started filling. Wouldn't you know it with in a several min the bags started filling up. I was able to fill and drain all three hard tanks and bags.


While removing one of the check valves, I did find a U in the hose that is more like a V that I need to re-plumbing. Also found out that one of the drain valves in the bow leaks like crazy. Both should be easy fixes.

The wave is night and day With and Without ballast. I think I need to figure out how to make the wave longer though. But non the less , it was awesome.

Thanks for everyones help. It nice to have people that are knowledgeable and are willing to take the time to help out people new to this (like me).

[lee]

Did self drain or did they stay full?