Revert back to Throttle Cable to get Perfect Pass?? 2006 Boat

[dakota4ce]

I have read a couple people say this in disgust as they are frustrated with SpeedSet: "I should just convert back to a manual throttle cable and ditch the TBW! Then I could have Perfect Pass"

Truthfully, is this actually possible or just rantings of people fed up with SpeedSet?

I have the cursed 2006 boat where I cannot leave SpeedSet behind because of my engine ECM, correct? I have researched several threads that tell me this.

I have the time this winter, I could do this if possible. Really I had no idea my 2006 had these limitations as I was shopping. I may have chosen another year.

[cpropes2005]

I think it should be possible. Before I purchased it my boat was converted the other way. It had a normal throttle by cable motor that the previous owner let freeze but when he replaced the motor he put in my newer throttle by wire engine.

So my setup has a normal mechanical throttle cable back to the engine compartment and then a special bracket bolted to the floor next to the motor. This bracket also holds the throttle position sensor which is normally at the dash in a tbw setup. I think the special bracket is called a throttle buddy. Like I said this was all on my boat when I bought it but I did install perfect pass and I was able to use the standard mechanical perfect pass to directly control the throttle position sensor.

[boardman74]

That is correct, that you are stuck with the speed set. I have never heard of trying to go back to a throttle cable. I'm guessing that will not work as the ecm is going to need the input from the wireless throttle. If you move the throttle body with a cable and the ecm isn't being told to throttle up by the wireless input its probably going to fault and go into safe/ limp. Someone with more more gas experience might know better than me.

[talltigeguy]

Which engine do you have? Some have the PCM engine, and those can use PP easily, but you would probably already have that if you have a PCM engine. Is there some speed control on there now?
EDIT: just saw your other thread...so my guess is that you have already had 1 keypad replacement.

The speedset may not be the most blingy, but it works. It just does not have a digital readout to control your speed within 1/4 MPH or less. The little red blinking light is impossible to see in the bright daylight, so sometimes you are not sure it is on. Other than those things, Tige Speedset works OK. I worry that the keypads occasionally fail, and some day Tige may not have any more of them. But since it was made by Tige themselves, that fear may never be realized. And I think some early 06's were still driven by a cable, so you might have one of those.

And congrats on the boat, and even bigger congrats on finding the search button.

[dakota4ce]

Which engine do you have? Some have the PCM engine, and those can use PP easily, but you would probably already have that if you have a PCM engine. Is there some speed control on there now?
EDIT: just saw your other thread...so my guess is that you have already had 1 keypad replacement.

The speedset may not be the most blingy, but it works. It just does not have a digital readout to control your speed within 1/4 MPH or less. The little red blinking light is impossible to see in the bright daylight, so sometimes you are not sure it is on.

And I think some early 06's were still driven by a cable, so you might have one of those.

And congrats on the boat, and even bigger congrats on finding the search button.

Regarding using SpeedSet: if you set it, and then bury the throttle without any effect, then its obviously on, correct? I have read that some use this technique to give it "headroom" to keep speed. Or did I read that wrong...

I do have a MP engine, but shoot, I am not 100% certain its TBW to be honest. If indeed some cable throttles still existed....but then would it have Accuset/Speedset? I will do some checking. It is good to hear that its not the worst system ever and can be very useful--the object is to train 3-4 people to operate it efficiently so I can surf an/or don't ALWAYS have to drive.

The search button and I are very acquainted. There is an encyclopedia of information on this site!

Thank you for your input, very useful information!

[dakota4ce]

Here is a potentially stupid question: Would a stand alone digital GPS Speedometer somewhere on the helm be of any use in speed control during pulls?

[chpthril]

If it has/had Accu-Set or Speed-Set, id be 100% positive that its an MP. yes, there were some early 06 that had the 05 MP cable driven throttle setup and PP, but none of those could ever be Speed-set or Accu-Set.

What the driver sees in regards to MPH at the helm, is irreverent to speed control. The problem is controlling the throttle, not the displaying of the speed.

I hate to give all the downs, but I dont know any ups in this regard.

[dom w. forte]

It can be done , but costly, you would have to change the shifter to the older cable style, then buy the PCM pps which comes with a support stand , make bracket for the sensor and perfect pass cable and then wire the pps to the old plug which is the same plug so thats the easy part.

[Stingreye]

That is correct, that you are stuck with the speed set. I have never heard of trying to go back to a throttle cable. I'm guessing that will not work as the ecm is going to need the input from the wireless throttle. If you move the throttle body with a cable and the ecm isn't being told to throttle up by the wireless input its probably going to fault and go into safe/ limp. Someone with more more gas experience might know better than me.

I dig some digging a while ago because it seemed crazy you couldn't retrofit. Here is some of what I found but its WAY over my head.

1st I remember reading that Marine power in 2006 is MEFI4 and that was one reason why the older speed control is less effective (vs MEFI5). I think someone wrote that Marine Power considered a MEFI5 retrofit kit but it would be expensive.

I don't think the MEFI4 ECU's have built in Throttle by wire. I think MEFI 4 required a "Throttle Actuator Control" TAC. I think and I am likely completely wrong, that it just emulates the old school throttle cable system. I think, and you would want to verify with Marine Power, that the MEFI4 ECU doesn't know whether its being powered by a TAC or by throttle cable. Its just looking at the throttle position sensor as an input (because there is no throttle output). Marine power must somehow have something that controls the TAC for their speed control.

So maybe you can swap throttle bodies and go throttle by wire?

MEFI 5 bundled the throttle by wire in the ECU (and I don't think has the TAC module). I think it will change throttle position based on conditions.... so that could not go back.

This is all WAY ABOVE MY HEAD! So I would definitely check with someone who knows more (maybe Marine Power?).


From Pirate4x4
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/MEFI/
MEFI-4 Inputs

CS - Crank Sensor (a.k.a. Crank Trigger) – crank angle (i.e. where each cylinder is in its 4-stroke cycle) & RPM.
CTS – Coolant Temperature Sensor - engine temperature.
O2 - Oxygen Sensors – air/fuel ratio via exhaust O2 content.
IAT – Inlet Air Temperature Sensor – temp of air entering intake manifold (and therefore the air's density).
TPS – Throttle Position Sensor - throttle blade position (opening).
IAC – Idle Air Control Valve - the IAC supplies metered air at idle, its sensor reports the solenoid plunger position.
MAP – Manifold Air Pressure Sensor - intake manifold pressure (vacuum) and therefore engine load and altitude.
CPS – Camshaft Position Sensor - rotational position of camshaft and therefore valve/stroke timing.
KS – Knock Sensor - engine knock or ping, used to retard timing and prevent pre-ignition.

All of these sensors play a vital role in engine operation and are used by the MEFI-4 ECM to sense a variety of operating conditions.

The outputs from the MEFI-4 ECM are:

MEFI-4 Outputs:

EST Signal (Electronic Spark Timing) - to fire the coils / spark plugs.

Injector Driver - to fire fuel injectors.

IAC Stepper Motor Control - Maintains perfect idle speed with the IAC stepper motor.

Fuel Pump Relay - Intelligent control of the fuel pump based on fuel pressure and engine status e.g. shut down fuel pump and therefore engine on overtemp, low oil pressure, engine overspeed, etc.

Check Engine Lamp - ECM turns on warning lamp when it detects a problem condition. It also stores a "diagnostic trouble code" or DTC which can be read by a scanner.

Tachometer Signal - to drive the tachometer.

[Stingreye]

It can be done , but costly, you would have to change the shifter to the older cable style, then buy the PCM pps which comes with a support stand , make bracket for the sensor and perfect pass cable and then wire the pps to the old plug which is the same plug so thats the easy part.

Missed this somehow. Dom would be a guy that would know how to get it done!

[cpropes2005]

Yeah what dom said is essentially what my setup is. Mechanical throttle lever at the helm and a special bracket in the engine bay that connects the mechanical throttle cable to the electronic throttle position sensor. The pic below is before I installed perfect pass but I was able to conect the perfect pass servo motor to the linkage at this special bracket so taht perfect pass can control the position of the sensor.

throttle.jpg

[zany]

Here is a potentially stupid question: Would a stand alone digital GPS Speedometer somewhere on the helm be of any use in speed control during pulls?

I have the speedset on my 06 with TBW and it works fine. I have an APP on my phone that gives me the speed to the tenth of a MPH. I get close to the speed I want, set the speed set, and then make the small adjustments with up / down buttons. Use it for Surfing and it works great.

[dakota4ce]

I have the speedset on my 06 with TBW and it works fine. I have an APP on my phone that gives me the speed to the tenth of a MPH. I get close to the speed I want, set the speed set, and then make the small adjustments with up / down buttons. Use it for Surfing and it works great.

This is essentially the feedback I was looking for. I want a decent level of function so that my wife can pull me without starting a dispute (as an example).

In this scenario, my understanding of SpeedSet is that the up and down arrows will alter speed by 1 mph? Zany is this ever an issue?

To the converse, my understanding that this lack of fine tunability is why people chiefly complain about SpeedSet and then favor Perfect Pass? It seems that Perfect Pass is widely considered to be better, more useful, more reliable. I am just trying to understand why and if it would be worth the effort to convert to that.

On the other hand, if SpeedSet will serve us just fine, I am certainly content with that for the time being. In either scenario, I may tack on the NauticLaugic GPS speed to rid myself of the paddlewheel problem I have now (which still remains unsolved).

Thanks guys, you are really on point.

MP

[boardman74]

The reason people complain is that the key pads burn out and its expensive to replace. Functionality they work just fine. I haven't heard complaints about how it operates, the issue you see on here and from working at a Tige dealership is the pads burn out often and its expensive to replace.

[dakota4ce]

It can be done , but costly, you would have to change the shifter to the older cable style, then buy the PCM pps which comes with a support stand , make bracket for the sensor and perfect pass cable and then wire the pps to the old plug which is the same plug so thats the easy part.

Dom--I am intrigued. Is "pps" the PCM motor's Throttle Postion Sensor? I apologize for not being able to follow your recipe exactly. Remedial Tige owner here. Not necessarily a COMPLETE idiot, but close at times.