Be honest--do I have what it takes to be a ballast engineer?

[dakota4ce]

Thought all of your smart guys would love to see my "official" planning sketch for my new 24Ve surfing ballast system. I know the detail and scale is impressive, please please do not shower me with accolades due to the super high quality work you see here. It embarrasses me.
IMG_4301.jpg
Enjoy, and please don't hesitate to ask me how I make masterpieces like this. My wife looked at it and promptly asked me if it contained any "actual" useful information.

[chpthril]

I would stick with an "L" shaped rear sac and abandon the dual sac configuration. Its very hard to get two sacs on the same plane to fill and drain efficiently. A the end of the day, the extra cost of an Enzo or custom is worth the functionality.

[dakota4ce]

chpthril-

That is definitely the plan--there are about 4 iterations represented on this sketch. The separate sac plan had about 30 seconds of life in real time as I was scratching this out.

I am for sure taking your advice!

[IDBoating]

The drawings seem to suggest that there's only a few inches of height below your floors, and thus only a couple hundred pounds of potential difference in ballast. Am I reading that correctly? On my 24Ve the space under there was on the order of 10-12 inches tall - a LOT of potential ballast, which is why I removed it. If yours is really as small as I'm seeing, it may not be worth the effort Harvey described.

[Stingreye]

I would stick with an "L" shaped rear sac and abandon the dual sac configuration. Its very hard to get two sacs on the same plane to fill and drain efficiently. A the end of the day, the extra cost of an Enzo or custom is worth the functionality.

Having been there... done that... should have listened..... I agree 100%

Also, get a custom with MAX capacity and make sure you included lots of ports!

[chpthril]

If yours is really as small as I'm seeing, it may not be worth the effort Harvey described.

Can you elaborate on what Harvey has stated about what below the floor on the 06-08 Ve, which was never designed for a below floor hard tank, as the 09 model year was. This was a discussion around here back in 08 when the 09 was releasing. It was deemed that there was not a foam-filled cavity below the floor as there is on an 09 if it was ordered without ballast.

[IDBoating]

I'll defer to Dakota for the details as he was the one speaking to Harvey about it, but my understanding is that the locker floor is glassed to the engine stringer and the volume underneath is filled with expanding foam. Importantly, there are no additional stringers nor other structural components under the floor - which, if true, means that it could be opened up for ballast much like I did my 2009 24Ve. You'd have to cut out the floor and then dig out the foam - a pain, but possible.

I'm sure Dakota will chime in with more information.

[chpthril]

Yes, the floor is part of the hull on the 08 and prior, much more so than on the 09 and new that was designed to have a herd tank there.

[IDBoating]

The way I understood it, the floor piece is "glassed in", which I take to mean that it is secured to the stringer and hull as a separate operation. Thus it should be possible to cut it back out and sand the surfaces smooth. I'm not saying it would be easy, and it may not be worth it for the volume gained - which is why I asked Dakota for clarification on those dimensions.

On my 24Ve, each floor unscrews and lifts out to reveal one big piece of loose foam, presumably the same size and shape as the missing optional hard tank. I suppose Tige could have glassed in the 2009 floors after the foam or tank was put in there, but thankfully they didn't. It can't be because they wanted to leave the option to retrofit the hard tanks after the fact... I could not remove the foam blocks without cutting them, the locker doors aren't large enough to permit it. You'd have to remove the entire metal topwork including both locker doors, the engine hatch, and the frames around all of them. Giant PITA, the labor would be outrageous.

[chpthril]

The way I understood it, the floor piece is "glassed in", which I take to mean that it is secured to the stringer and hull as a separate operation.

The floor of the boat in question, is a single piece, not a separate section that just covers the locker. This is evident when you see build pics. Knowing where to cut would be a crap shoot, unless you got exact specs from Tige.

It can't be because they wanted to leave the option to retrofit the hard tanks after the fact.

Its because it would be 2 new molds just to build the boat without ballast. Keeping the entire build the same, i.e. same hull and deck construction, but fill the cavity with foam rather than a tank, means no new R&D or additional assembly time.

[duffymahoney]

I think leave the floor, get custom sacks and be done with it. You can always buy some lead. By far easier.

[IDBoating]

The floor of the boat in question, is a single piece, not a separate section that just covers the locker. This is evident when you see build pics. Knowing where to cut would be a crap shoot, unless you got exact specs from Tige.

If Harvey is correct, though, and there are no structural components in the middle, then it's just a matter of knowing the thickness of the engine stringers because they are the "other side" of the compartment. Once you're through to the expanding foam, just follow along the stringer along the longitudinal axis. Cut a little wide to be safe, and once the floor is out clean up the stringer.

Keeping the entire build the same, i.e. same hull and deck construction, but fill the cavity with foam rather than a tank, means no new R&D or additional assembly time.

I meant that they could have glassed in the floor, or not, regardless of whether they first installed foam or a tank. The number of molds, assembly time, etc. wouldn't change no matter what is under there.

However, glassing certainly takes more time than a drop in floor, and leaves open the possibility of servicing the fittings on a hard tank if one was installed. I sure wouldn't want to have to cut glass just to replace a tank fitting. So faster assembly + possibility of service = strong argument for a drop-in floor instead of the earlier glass-in approach.

[IDBoating]

I think leave the floor, get custom sacks and be done with it. You can always buy some lead. By far easier.

And may not be worth the effort, if his drawings are to scale. Doesn't look like he has nearly the available volume under there that the 2009 hull has.

[chpthril]

The number of molds, assembly time, etc. wouldn't change no matter what is under there.

What under there doesn't change it, its whether you stick with a false floor over the unused cavity or go with a solid floor as the previous year had. THIS is what would technically make a boat without ballast, an entirely different build than one with ballast.

[retox1]

Ok, not to derail this guys thread even more but what about the floor in my 07 rz2? Can I pull up the rear sections to get to the foam without tearing up too much of the boat?