Raptor Motors in '15?

[dom w. forte]

Indmar used 351 fords until 1993 , they switched to Chevy because Ford was discontinueing the 302 and 351 by 1997, PCM continued with Ford till 1997 but offered the GT40 till 2002 which were the left over engines in inventory, it is only natural to switch to Ford with GM discontinueing the old power plants, also at this time Ford produce more torque and fuel economy , just like Ford has been testing an all aluminum F150 in field use for several years now Tige has been testing the motor in field use with exellent results.
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[dom w. forte]

If you were a salomn skier in the 80s and 90s which I was, you could tell on the take off if you were behind an Excaliber 330 hp 350 or a 310HP GT40 the Chevy produced 340 to 350 torque the Ford produced 380 torque, just a little trivia.

[Z1Fan]

If you were a salomn skier in the 80s and 90s which I was, you could tell on the take off if you were behind an Excaliber 330 hp 350 or a 310HP GT40 the Chevy produced 340 to 350 torque the Ford produced 380 torque, just a little trivia.

Interesting that you would mention torque , and really with towboats , torque is the key , interesting that no manufacturers would experiment with diesels , specially in 2015 , with fuel prices heading up etc. Diesels today are clean , quiet , and easy to maintain, not to mention cheaper to run, both Chevy and Ford have excellent motors , as well as others like Cummings, Volvo , Kubota , izuzu, etc

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[chpthril]

Interesting that you would mention torque , and really with towboats , torque is the key , interesting that no manufacturers would experiment with diesels , specially in 2015 , with fuel prices heading up etc. Diesels today are clean , quiet , and easy to maintain, not to mention cheaper to run, both Chevy and Ford have excellent motors , as well as others like Cummings, Volvo , Kubota , izuzu, etc

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They have, as well as electric and hybrid. MC has done a couple over the years, one using the V-Dub diesel. There was an Epic that was electric or Hybrid IIRC.

If you are wondering why we dont have diesels in consumer trailer boats, then just check around to see how many on the water marinas have diesel pumps. Lack of distribution and engine cost are the why nots.

[chpthril]

http://evepic.com/water.html

Based on a thread in this link, Pavati had offered a diesel.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794648

http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/ar...hp/t-5926.html

[dom w. forte]

We have discussed the diesels in the past, at this time they dont work well in these type of sports because the torque doesnt develope in a progression so you have do a lot of prop combos to get a happy median but there are sacrifices , you either prop and get your arms yanked off or you prop and drag till the turbo spools up in a truck or car you have a trans, and torque converter that will compliment the engine , I ran across several test out at our lake while they were working on trying to dial inthe diesels for Nautique and MC , they never could get as good a pull as the gas engines and surprisely the fuel numbers didnt do any better then conventional gas motors, Ithink the only way that they will perfect the diesels is with a possible multi speed gear box.

[Ewok]

Maybe now they might be able to do a hybrid setup with 100 hp electric engine to supplement an inline 4 or 6 diesel. The electric throttle control might be able to smooth add power as the turbo spools up and takes over or assists the hole shot. It would be mighty expensive I bet.

[turbonine]

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=44569#

Wish there was a better picture of the engine. Would like to see how everything fit in there.

[Timmy!]

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=44569#

Wish there was a better picture of the engine. Would like to see how everything fit in there.

Hold up! Did you see the new Polk Audio head unit and new Tige Touch in those pics????

[ericinmich]

Maybe now they might be able to do a hybrid setup with 100 hp electric engine to supplement an inline 4 or 6 diesel. The electric throttle control might be able to smooth add power as the turbo spools up and takes over or assists the hole shot. It would be mighty expensive I bet.

Hybrids for cars get most of their benefit from the large energy storage onboard (batteries) that allows the braking energy usually wasted to be captured on decel and put back into the system on accel. There is some benefit from the storage to allow the engine to operate at a slightly better efficiency speed/load by adding (or removing) extra (needed) power from the onboard battery.

On a boat which doesn't have brakes that waste energy (turn the energy into heat on car) there isn't any significant benefit to having a hybrid. Plus a huge cost and risk of very high voltage in a wet environment.

Yes, on large ships they use diesel electric propulsion but that isn't the same power flow as a hybrid in a car, although surfing behind a ship may be fun if you can afford the fuel.

[dingleberry]

Hybrids for cars get most of their benefit from the large energy storage onboard (batteries) that allows the braking energy usually wasted to be captured on decel and put back into the system on accel. There is some benefit from the storage to allow the engine to operate at a slightly better efficiency speed/load by adding (or removing) extra (needed) power from the onboard battery.

On a boat which doesn't have brakes that waste energy (turn the energy into heat on car) there isn't any significant benefit to having a hybrid. Plus a huge cost and risk of very high voltage in a wet environment.

Yes, on large ships they use diesel electric propulsion but that isn't the same power flow as a hybrid in a car, although surfing behind a ship may be fun if you can afford the fuel.

Just as an aside - Epic Boats made an electric/gasoline hybrid a few years ago. It could be operated as a pure electric boat with plug-in recharging, or it could use the gasoline engine as a generator to power the electric drive. Seemed interesting, but I guess it must not have sold that well because I don't see it on their site anymore (although they do have an all-electric boat still available).

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/featu...akeboard-boat/

[ericinmich]

Just as an aside - Epic Boats made an electric/gasoline hybrid a few years ago. It could be operated as a pure electric boat with plug-in recharging, or it could use the gasoline engine as a generator to power the electric drive. Seemed interesting, but I guess it must not have sold that well because I don't see it on their site anymore (although they do have an all-electric boat still available).

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/featu...akeboard-boat/

Yup, looks like someone tried. When you do the math, the batteries hold about the same energy as a gallon of gas based on their weight. It may be more if they use the full range of the batteries, most hybrid cars keep the batteries between 40-80% state of charge so they last 100k miles. So for an extra $50k, they give you a plug in ability the same as a gallon of gas. No regeneration capabilities like a car hybrid, so it would never make sense.

[JohnnieMo]

Yup, looks like someone tried. When you do the math, the batteries hold about the same energy as a gallon of gas based on their weight. It may be more if they use the full range of the batteries, most hybrid cars keep the batteries between 40-80% state of charge so they last 100k miles. So for an extra $50k, they give you a plug in ability the same as a gallon of gas. No regeneration capabilities like a car hybrid, so it would never make sense.

Gasoline holds far more energy than batteries do - pound for pound. It's physics. And we still don't even get that much efficiency from gasoline.

See the chart on specific energy of various mediums. Gasoline has about 46MJ/kg while even a lithium ion battery is sucking wind at about 3MJ/kg. There is a reason 'ol Henry went with gas, and it wasn't an oil company conspiracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

The chart immediately shows why things like Uranium and even Hydrogen are such valuable fuel types. What's really cool is the relative energy available in food!

[Ewok]

On a boat which doesn't have brakes that waste energy (turn the eBnergy into heat on car) there isn't any significant benefit to having a hybrid. Plus a huge cost and risk of very high voltage in a wet environment.

For energy recovery the hybrid motor/generator could be installed on the driveshaft like the KERS system on an F1 car, so that when you pull the throttle back the prop could spin and put energy back into the battery or capacitor, just enough juice to smooth out the power delivery of the Diesel engine. I'm not saying it'll be cheap to do, but it's probably possible. Maybe in 20-30 years when we are really desperate to find efficiencies and alternate sources of power for our toys.

[ericinmich]

For energy recovery the hybrid motor/generator could be installed on the driveshaft like the KERS system on an F1 car, so that when you pull the throttle back the prop could spin and put energy back into the battery or capacitor, just enough juice to smooth out the power delivery of the Diesel engine. I'm not saying it'll be cheap to do, but it's probably possible. Maybe in 20-30 years when we are really desperate to find efficiencies and alternate sources of power for our toys.

A KERS'ish system also wouldn't make sense. On a car (racing or not) the M*V (energy) to be recovered is huge on every braking event. On an F1 car, it spends a lot of time on decels (maybe 25% of track), even more that a typical car in city traffic. On a boat, it spends most of it's time at steady state speed. Even when you let off, the boat settles into a few knots after a couple seconds due to the friction & displacement of the water. And even if you did try to use the prop to get a little energy back, I bet the 'reverse' prop slip would eat up most of it. I'm not sure what you mean about smoothing out power delivery of a Diesel. I had a boat with diesels, very smooth, linear power.

*** can you tell I spent a number of years on the engineering of hybrid controls! Most would be amazed in the amount of computer modeling of the systems involved in propulsion and optimizing it efficiency through every way available.