Wakesurf FAQ: What is Push?

[ragboy]

I have heard people say that push doesn't exist, and I over heard someone at a recent event correcting a newer person to wakesurfing, telling them there was no such thing as push. I just think that is silly, to say the least. So instead of just arguing, I came up with this visual demonstration to explain PUSH. Let me know what you think.

[JohnnieMo]

Very cool! Good explanation.

What bugs me about "push" is when people say a boat has a big wave, but no push. That makes no sense to me. A wave is a wave. It has shape and size. It is always made of water. I don't see how any two waves of the same size don't have the same push. I suppose a wave can have more air in it, and that would affect its density (hence its push) but frothy waves pretty much are un-surfable unless they are coming off the Queen Mary.

[gwhite94]

Great Job Robert!!!!!!

[What she said]

Have you ever wakeboarded behind a boat that has very hard/unforgiving wake? And then wakeboarded behind a boat with a softer more unforgiven wake. Same size wake just different characteristics.

[ragboy]

Very cool! Good explanation.

What bugs me about "push" is when people say a boat has a big wave, but no push. That makes no sense to me. A wave is a wave. It has shape and size. It is always made of water. I don't see how any two waves of the same size don't have the same push. I suppose a wave can have more air in it, and that would affect its density (hence its push) but frothy waves pretty much are un-surfable unless they are coming off the Queen Mary.

One of the catalysts to this video was the surf I had on Wednesday, which part of it is in the video. My first run, was great, and then RJ added some more opposite side weight to the boat, and I went out. You can hear him and I talking about the extra push if you listen closely. Also, I couldn't keep off the boat like I normally do. I don't move my feet around as well as others. ;-) The wake didn't LOOK different, it was huge, but just as huge as before. You can see I am not bending over at all and can touch the wake no problem, I am 6'2" tall. So just a couple hundred extra pounds in the right place, and the difference was VERY noticeable.

I can't tell you EXACTLY why that is, but I have a couple of ideas.

1. When you list less on the Z3 (more opposite weight) it will usually have less of a curl. You can see after I fall the curl is almost non-existent, its just a RAMP. When that curl doesn't grab your leg and you are free of it, it just allows you to move forward much easier and gives you a greater sensation of push.

2. I think certain setups, hulls, etc, can make the wave have more hook, so the wave comes around behind you. This means that the "incline" of the wave is pushing you more directly towards the boat and not out or away from the boat. When the wave has more hook like that, and you can see it when I fall, its like having the right matched prop for your boat, its get the power to the ground more efficiently, gives you greater push.

Just some thoughts/observations, not meant to be definitive.

[robert theisen]

Ragboy. Why are you wearing gloves? I assume the water wasn't cold because you don't have on a wetsuit.

[ragboy]

Cuz of my weight, my fingers can't quite take it. I am using these gloves, its amazing how well they work.

http://www.amazon.com/Masterline-Pro...es+lock+master

I should say, I can get up with some normal gloves, and my technique has gotten so much better, I bet I could without now, but not in the beginning. However, I have forgotten these gloves and have had to get up and forearms were in pain for like 3-4 days.

[JohnnieMo]

I follow you on the "hook" of the wave. That is related to shape. And I think that is why the Z1/Z3 hull has been so effective for surfing.

As for the hard wave vs soft wave, I've never noticed it myself.... unless the wave is frothy. I'd say my beef is more with the term hard and soft, and less with the term "push".

Ragboy - I always watch your videos. Each and every one. Many of them twice or ten times! I'll be picking up some bags when the funds present themselves. Thanks for sharing.

[NICKYPOO]

So, Robert, what I got out of that painfully long video is that "push" is just a dumbed down term for those that would rather not think about what is actually happening.

[ragboy]

So, Robert, what I got out of that painfully long video is that "push" is just a dumbed down term for those that would rather not think about what is actually happening.

You mean like when people refer to the PULL of gravity? Even scientists? When they know their is nothing PULLING? They use the term because its the accepted term that people understand and relate to.

[Allan Kendall]

haha...that was funny....

[NICKYPOO]

You mean like when people refer to the PULL of gravity? Even scientists? When they know their is nothing PULLING? They use the term because its the accepted term that people understand and relate to.

Ya, except that an astrophysicist would refer to it as the force of gravity. Once again, an "accepted term" has made the general public dumber. Thanks for contributing though.

[ragboy]

You mean an Astrophysicist like Neil deGrasse Tyson? He uses the term "PULL" at least 2 times in this video about gravity and I think force only once.

I had purposely found several videos where pull is used for gravity and had included a section in the "push" video where I discuss the term "pull of gravity" as a reference, but the video was already to long and I edited it out.

[NICKYPOO]

It's still a dumbed down term, Robert. If you choose to dumb it down for the masses, that's your choice. I will not. Had you not made a video and put it out there for the world to see, we wouldn't be discussing it. You did, I've got free speech, I disagree with it. That fact that Niel is good at dumbing it down doesn't make the term pull of gravity any less unintelligent. Same with push.

[ragboy]

I will leave you to your free speech.