Received 2 Citations - have you been hit with the same? Best bet to get dismissed?

[rpaxton]

Indeed, I was on my home lake - Lake Conroe off the main body in Live Branch just east of the dam.

Citations were specific - "1 - No Skier Down Flag" and "2 - Transom Riding" under Reckless or Negligent operation.

The skier down flag was in my hand - so the officer is citing me incorrectly there.

I saw both of the "Special Requirements" listed above on the TPWD.com - and it does leave a lot of room for interpretation for the transom riding. The flag is clearly a stretch in the interpretation of the law.

I'll give the court a call later this week and see what I can't get reduced / removed. I'll keep ya'll posted.

Hotshot,

Keep in mind that the citation is just a "summons to appear". It does not have to have the correct technical language on the citation. The officer can put what ever he wants on the citation (i.e. No flag), but if he articulates the correct language of the law in the Complaint then that is what you will actually have to plea to in court. Here in Brazos County the TPWD officers operate out of JP courts. Contact that court and ask what you are specifically being charged with. Ask for the actual TPWD statute that you are being charged with. Go to this site: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations and read the actual law. If you feel that you are not guilty then fight it, if you think that you violated the law...... Either way I would advise you to exercise your right to have an attorney represent you. They work with the courts daily and can help you get the best deal possible.

Just my 2 cents.

[TeamAllen]

In CA all of those rules apply, plus the observer has to be 12 years or older.
Good luck with the ticket(s)!

[boatwakes]

Texas does not have a skier down flag law, period. Fight it and tell them to pound sand, politely but with purpose. In order for any citation to be valid, it has to be given by a state authorized representative and since no such law is on the books in Texas, no state authorized representative can give a citation regarding it. http://www.boat-ed.com/texas/handboo...-Towing-Skiers

[sandm]

no flag required in wisconsin but idaho did require a flag and iirc, had to be 16 and older(but only 12 to drive the boat.. go figure).

transom riding is a no no in both states. I knew from idaho dealer telling me such, but got stopped last friday night for rider on the transom. did the whole safety check and then a warning. he did ask me why I didn't have a wisconsin drivers license. told him I hadn't gotten around to it yet and idled off

[bnixon]

Hey c_hotshot,

Was that on Friday? I passed you heading in to the seven coves ramp around 4:15 while you guys were surfing. As soon as we hit the no wake zone I saw the constables boat flying in and was wondering what was going on...

Let us know how this works out. I defiantly don't want any run ins with the Popo. By the way how was their attitude with you?

[rpaxton]

Texas does not have a skier down flag law, period. Fight it and tell them to pound sand, politely but with purpose. In order for any citation to be valid, it has to be given by a state authorized representative and since no such law is on the books in Texas, no state authorized representative can give a citation regarding it. http://www.boat-ed.com/texas/handboo...-Towing-Skiers

Boatwakes,

You are correct that Texas does not have a skier down flag law (yet); however, a county or municipality can create legislation that is more restrictive than what the state allows. By doing this each county or municipality can actually enact a skier down flag law for their specific lake. So yes, Texas does not have one, but that does not mean that the County Commissioners or City Council that governs a specific lake can not enact one. If a law in a specific location differs from what the state requires, then that would require that signs be posted in the area telling patrons of this difference. One way to fight the skier flag issue would be to document that the signs were not posted or did not provide adequate information. In other words, if the signs posted just stated that a skier down flag was required, but did not mention that it had to be operated by someone other than the boat's driver then one could fight the citation.

[IDBoating]

He also told me that I needed to have my drivers license with me while operating the boat.

In CA all of those rules apply, plus the observer has to be 12 years or older.

What state issues driver's licenses to 12 year olds?

[tigeidaho]

no flag required in wisconsin but idaho did require a flag and iirc, had to be 16 and older(but only 12 to drive the boat.. go figure).

transom riding is a no no in both states. I knew from idaho dealer telling me such, but got stopped last friday night for rider on the transom. did the whole safety check and then a warning. he did ask me why I didn't have a wisconsin drivers license. told him I hadn't gotten around to it yet and idled off

So I'm in Idaho (big surprise, right). I have studied the laws over and over. No where does it state the observer has to be a certain age or that they have to be the ones holding the flag. It states that a flag must be displayed. Not how it must be displayed. Also, the law states that the observer must be competent not 16yo. I bet my 10yo is more competent than most of the drunks on the lake. Don't try to talk to the officers about the way the laws are written though. They have their interpretation and that's the "law". I have talked to a couple local officers and they all spout off what Sandm wrote. I routinely let my 10yo son flag and am waiting to get a citation. I am also considering a flag holder on my tower. I feel like a flag on the tower is better than someone holding it in the cabin, under the tower.

[bnixon]

That is why this was one of my first upgrades when I got my boat... Conroe is my home lake as well.




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[Ewok]

I'm sorry Conroe got infected with the flag and I still think the skier down flag is a dumb idea. Other boaters should be looking in the water and looking where they are going instead of relying on a small orange flag to warn them of a possible skier down. I'm just curious but how many of you have been saved or have noticed a rider down in the water because someone had a flag in the boat? When I'm driving I am always looking outside of the boat, watching where I'm going, and watching for other boats pulling skiers, but I'm not looking for little orange flags, am I the only one?

[IDBoating]

I get the "skier down" concept, though. A flag that is always in the same position just fades into the background of your awareness.

I agree with Ewok: We should be alert all of the time and not change our behavior due to the presence or absence of a flag, but the sad fact is that most people aren't so responsible even when sober. As I unfortunately have the opportunity to say rather frequently, "It doesn't take brains nor maturity to own a boat, just money."

[sandm]

I am also considering a flag holder on my tower. I feel like a flag on the tower is better than someone holding it in the cabin, under the tower.

sue and joe used this on their sanger but were warned on several lakes that it's against the law to have a holder. the flag must be held by a person. personally, not worth the hassle of the inspection to have a holder. there are too many "grey" areas of boating laws that they can use to issuse a citation if they want to. lifejackets must be in reach, not in a locker, throwable must be within arms length of the driver and so on. like any force, the laws might be written one way but the officer will find a different law to cite you for such as the case above about issuing a citation for operating in an unsafe manner. that's pretty wide open.

[cpropes2005]

In response to rpaxtons comment on signage being required if the local law differs from state law. I have never seen any sign on lake Conroe that would tell you that a flag is needed. Actually the way I found out it was required when we moved here 8 years ago was by getting pulled over. Fortunately the guy who pulled us over ended up being a friend of a friend so we got off with a warning but the signage may be a point to argue to help get it dismissed.

[Matt Garcia]

Sitting on the transom or not “inside” the boat will almost always get you stopped by the local law enforcement here in the DFW area. It just gives them a reason to stop you and try to ping you for something. I have never heard of any boating law in Texas requiring the skier down flag, heck I don’t think I have ever seen that in person.

[c_hotshot]

Update - had my arraignment today. DA & Judge were pretty lenient - despite the last week on Lake Conroe having 3 deaths. I was able to get both dismissed and paid the smaller of the 2 fines - $155.

Learnings:
- Most Texas waterways are governed by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (TPWD) - however, there are lakes that have their own Rules and Regulations such as Lake Conroe which is governed by San Jacinto River Authority (SJRA). SJRA has much stricter Rules and Regulations compared to TPWD - and both of my citations were spelled out (clearly with little room for interpretations) in the SJRA Rules and Regulations.
- Check out any lake (Home Lake or a new lake) for any governing Rules and Regulations before setting out
- Keep everyone in the boat!
- Flag holders (suction cups or mounted to tower) are not compliant with SRJA rules.

Stay safe and enjoy the rest of your summer.