Odd problems with starting...

[Abatt2006]

2002 21v riders edition
350
New Starter
Alternator tested well
New battery

I bought this boat late last summer and am having a weird issue with the starting/electrical system. Basically when the boat is cold it fires right up, but after we have been running around on the lake for a while we might have to wait 30 minutes before it will turn over. When it's warm you can here the starter spinning but the bendix won't engage to flywheel, for the life of me I can figure out what's wrong. The battery is good, the starter is new, the alternator is charging... Something's not adding up, anybody experience anything like this?

Ohh first time poster, long time stalker.

[Stingreye]

Here is what it sounded like when my ring gear had a flat spot. Not sure if yours is similar. starter bad?: http://youtu.be/5YAeCXfWgNk

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[TeamAllen]

Welcome to the site. If you are a long time stalker you know we need to see a picture of your boat soon. Where are you located?

[Stingreye]

Missed you were new! Welcome! Definitely put up pics! I don't know your motor but on mine I had a block mount starter and there was a plate that can be removed and you can see the ring gear without removing your starter. You can the visually see if the ring gear turns when turning the motor over. To examine my ring gear, boatwakes (user here) had me remove the spark plugs and turn over motor by hand looking at the teeth of the ring gear. That confirmed the failing ring gear and his diagnosis of my problems from that video I linked to above. I doubt it's your problem but that was my issue. Unlike yours mine could be duplicated on the trailer with a fake a lake.

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[ericinmich]

If after it cools down it starts without you doing anything I doubt that it's a the ring gear missing teeth. I'm more familiar with auto engines so I'm not sure which type of starer us used on our boats. One type works by basically spinning the starter and the it's gear spins into the ring gear on the engine. The other (which I think boats use) hast a starter solenoid that needs to push the gear into the ring gear before the starter spins. That solenoid can be week or have poor connections and when hot won't work (magnets don't like hot, lose strength). If the ring gear is fine, need new starter (sometimes can replace solenoid, but while you have it out just replace the whole starter).

[boatwakes]

Two separate issues it sounds like: first, I need to clarify terminology so we're all on the same page.
- Running: engine is running on its own fuel
- Turn over: this means the engine is actually spinning from the starter ONLY and not running

Now, if, when it's warm, it won't turn over with the starter, what happens when you turn the key? Is there a click a buzz or any noise at all? If nothing is happening, wiggle the shifter while trying to start and if it does turn over during that, you're neutral safety switch should be examined for loose wiring or terminals and be replaced if required.
The other condition where you hear the starter spinning and no flywheel engagement is most likely a chipped tooth or missing teeth on the ring gear if you've already replaced the starter. Let us know what you've found after examining further.
And welcome to the site.

[Abatt2006]

Thanks for all the input, per demands first
image.jpg
Fort Worth TX

I'm pretty sure that I have a block starter, but that was replaced late last summer so I'm pretty sure it's not the actual starter that's the problem. When it's warm and you hit the ignition you can here starter spinning but it's not engaging the motor to turn it over. I had my mechanic check the teeth of the flywheel and he said it looks good. What Ericinmich said makes a lot of sense about the solenoid, even though I replaced the starter, it doesn't mean they replaced the solenoid, so that sounds like the most likely culprit

[Abatt2006]

And one more for good measure
image.jpg

[mls6722]

I would remove, clean and re-tighten all power terminals on the battery and starter solenoid. Solenoids usually won't power the starter without engaging the starter drive gear. Those gears are ratcheted, so they can sometime fail in a way where they intermittently do not lock. This problem quickly turns into never locking. If your replacement starter was a rebuilt unit, they are sometimes built with poor quality parts. Any warranty? If you had nothing but a click sound, it could be the solenoid or a starter solenoid switch. Easy to troubleshoot - jumper across the two large terminals and see how it cranks.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...ed=0CH4QpiswAg

[Abatt2006]

Thanks MLS, the replacement starter was new, I am very blessed with the fact the my father works for a major boat parts distributor, so I get good stuff on the cheap and there's never a question of quality. Ill check the solenoid and report back.

[Abatt2006]

Ok so I replaced the solenoid and it's still doing the same damn thing, starts when it's cold and just spins the starter (does not engage) when hot. I took it back to the mechanic to troubleshoot but even he's clueless, anybody out there have any idea?

[chpthril]

Sounds like the motor needs rebuilt. Gear is sticking in place and not engaging the fly wheel.

[Abatt2006]

Rebuild the motor? This problem has got to be electrical... There has got to be something between the ignition and the starter that isn't making a good connection when it gets hot. The starter, alternator, solenoid, and battery are brand spankin new, what other components/switches/fuses could possible get fouled up when it's hot?

[chpthril]

yeah, starter motor not engine. If the starter pins, then its either the coil in the solenoid not engaging the starter gear or its the gear binding on the motor shaft.

Ive just skimmed over the post and saw in your post today, you had replaced the solenoid. Did not see that the starter had already been replaced. Have you done a voltage drop test on the main starter cable.

[Abatt2006]

That's the next step, start at the starter and work backwards until we find the drop in voltage. I'm hoping that someone reads this and can miracle up a $9.95 fix because my allowance for boat repairs has ran the hell out.