Z1 vs RZR for wakesurfing

[ChrisBarnes05-12-84]

My buddy here in town will be ordering one of these boats and asked me how in comparrison does the rzr surf with z1. Since I have never been on an rzr I can't give him an answer. The only person I can remember commenting on subject was barry1me which said not much difference. Anyone else have an opinion?

[barry1me]

My buddy here in town will be ordering one of these boats and asked me how in comparrison does the rzr surf with z1. Since I have never been on an rzr I can't give him an answer. The only person I can remember commenting on subject was barry1me which said not much difference. Anyone else have an opinion?

I will be on a 13 Z1 next week with the 'new' convex VX brackets so I will be able to tell you more of how they surf. The last 13 Z1 I rode with wrong old style brackets on the Convex vx was soft, short, and less push then my RZR. I have heard that the Z1 and Z3 surf awesome without the convex VX, and they will surf better with convex vx if you want to load them down with a few 1000 extra pounds of ballast. For me ballast on the seats and floor are not an option.

[ChrisBarnes05-12-84]

Ya me either. To much ballast cuts down on room for chicks and beer. I also know he plans on putting pro ballast in whichever he chooses.

[NHarp1]

Unless you plan on going pro, the RZR and Z1 both produce a fantastic wake surf. I have owned both! It all comes to what you can afford. The Z1 is now a bigger boat compared to earlier years. I would go with he Z1 as it has improved a whole lot.

[ragboy]

I have been asked this question before, and I never answered it thoroughly because at the time I had limited experience on the RZR/R20. However, testing them back to back, I definitely feel like I can bring some information to this question. First, I am referring to the RZR and Z1 with the VX. The RZR is a narrower boat than the Z1 and it makes a good surf wake without the VX as Squid has definitely shown and others but it definitely did not have as good of a transition as the Z1. The RZR with the VX is even better, it has a smoother less abrubt transition and what a difference it made. I would say that the VX on the RZR makes the biggest improvement for any of the boats we were on due to the better transition.

That said, I can show you in pictures and if you rewatch that video, the transition on the Z1 is still better than the RZR, if you are comparing boats. The transition is the shape of the wave as it "transitions" from the the flats to the face of the wave. Some boats waves are more abrupt, and it causes you to get caught up more when going from the flats to the wave, or from the wave to the flats. With a more abrupt transition you have to put the brakes on more as you come down a wave by raising the nose up to prevent from nose diving or catching an edge. Going up you have to adjust your angle more, etc. The better the transition the more fluid you can surf, and the great speed you can use to build up for tricks like airs and especially bottom turns. For instance, Takoh has a great bottom turn. With the RZR she did great, but couldn't QUITE go out as far because she had to keep the nose up coming down the wake where she builds up speed. If you watch that video close, you can see it. Look at the water underneath her board as she goes down the wake to grab speed.

Here are a couple of pictures from the RZR and Z1. First 3 from the Z1:


IMG_6579 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6581 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6595 by wake9, on Flickr

Now the RZR:


IMG_6232 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6293 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6320 by wake9, on Flickr

You can see in the pictures that Takoh is having to put more weight on her back foot when coming down and gaining speed on the RZR through the transition. She couldn't quite get the same bottom turn on the RZR, but after doing it several times was able to get very close. You don't need to be a pro to appreciate a great transition, probably effects novices more. The RZR/R20 with the VX is probably the best 20 foot wakesurf boat I have seen, but if all things are equal and matching it up against the Z1 for purely surfing, I would say the Z1 is better due to the transition. Other aspects of the surf wave were pretty darn close, not enough difference to really point anything out.

Here are some pics of some other great transitions. Here is one of the best, the 24V/Ve, this is our old 24Ve, and now Takoh's family owns and loves it.


IMG_4273 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_4974 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_5086 by wake9, on Flickr

And of course, the Z3 with VX.


IMG_4848 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_4485 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_5249 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_7494 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_1850 by wake9, on Flickr

Hope that helps. You won't suffer with either one. ;-)

[barry1me]

wow great information ragboy. what was the ballast setup in the Z1 you are reffering to? How did the push/length of the wave compare from RZR to Z1? Also how do you compare a RZ2 vs the Z1?

[Timmy!]

All things being equal, I think you would appreciate the extra width of the Z1 on the interior in the long run too.

[Timmy!]

...and now you're saying "But the RZR is a picklefork and probably has a larger bow". Ahhhh...Tige has tricked you on this one! They are very comparable in size. I have overlayed an image of the Z1 onto the RZR. The orange outlines are the Z1's bow and the faint green is the outline of the RZR. As you can see, the bow of the Z1 is slightly larger.

[barry1me]

sorry man but the bow on the 13 Z1 I was in was much shorter and much more narrow then my RZR.

[ChrisBarnes05-12-84]

Ragboy that was an awesome explanation. Wow!! I'll send my buddy to cruise this thread. I was actually hoping u would weigh in

[ragboy]

Ragboy that was an awesome explanation. Wow!! I'll send my buddy to cruise this thread. I was actually hoping u would weigh in

Your welcome. Wait, is that a fat joke? ;-)

wow great information ragboy. what was the ballast setup in the Z1 you are reffering to? How did the push/length of the wave compare from RZR to Z1? Also how do you compare a RZ2 vs the Z1?

OK, we tried to take notes, but it was storming and the iPod we were taking notes on died from the rain. I am 90% sure that Z1 we had had only SURF ballast. My memory is that on the Z1 the goofy wake was not quite right, and we were having trouble figuring it out, and then realized it only had surf and we moved someone up there. That also happened on the RZR. So the Z1 DEF needs the PRO setup, IMHO, especially for the Goofy side.

For all of the boats, we only added 1 large 400 lb sac under the side seat, and I would guess we got 300 lbs of water in it, then me at 400 and a few kids and tony driving. For all of the boats EXCEPT the Z3, that made a nice wake. The Z3 would need more in the rear locker than that, especially with the VX. More on the Z3 later, we are working on something with that ...

As far as the RZ2, we didn't get enough time but the wake on the regular side was like deliciousness mixed with juicy goodness. The goofy side we had a tough time and couldn't quite get there, we got the goofy good, very good. To the point where Tony almost landed his first 360 and RJ was boosting. However, we didn't get the juicy deliciousness that we saw on the regular side. I would LOVE to play some more on the RZ2 and figure that out. It was now adjustable like the Z3, able to mellow out more, and it had height also. It was really nice.

Here are a couple of pics. The wave was beefy. (I think I am hungry ;-) )


IMG_5569 by wake9, on Flickr

Great shot of the transition on the RZ2


IMG_5671 by wake9, on Flickr

Plenty of length, curl was set back


IMG_5742 by wake9, on Flickr

Is your mouth watering also? mmmm


IMG_5715 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_5649 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_5658 by wake9, on Flickr

So, you may be thinking, I get a bigger wake on my boat, etc. However, with only PRO ballast and an extra 300 lbs? We all know the RZ2 reacts well to weight, this made me think of what it would do if you added more. Man, so little time, so many boats.

And then there is the new boat, you should have seen that thing, it was frickin....

[ragboy]

Oh push and length of the Z1 vs RZR. I remember them being very comparable once we got the right brackets on them. The Z1 may have been a tad longer than Z1, maybe not, they were very close. They would both surf a 300 lb dude no problem.

[NHarp1]

image.jpg
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image.jpg

RZR without VX. Tall wake, aggressive transition, good push, pocket area somewhat limited.

[ragboy]

Good pics, you can really see how the VX has lengthened, smoothed the transition, and cleaned up the wave, here is goofy, like above.


IMG_6383 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6380 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_6403 by wake9, on Flickr

Here is a great one with the board matching the wake and the transition, its much better than without VX.


IMG_6407 by wake9, on Flickr

[Duncan]

And then there is the new boat, you should have seen that thing, it was frickin....

D'oh!! Just slip that in all innocuous-like