Interesting Claim by MC sales person.

[boardman74]

True. I was saying the same thing with the parasitic hp loss thru the drive train. If a PCM loses 20%(343 hp to 277 hp) then I would have to believe so would an Ilmor, Indmar, mercruiser, etc. I guess I'd have to see the test to ever believe it.

It's just odd that a MC dealer tried to bring up the same thing to me. When I asked where that test was at he couldn't tell me. Just that it came from MC themselves. He gave the the " can you believe that PCM 303 only puts out like 260 hp?"

[JreisRZR]

That's BS. Here it is folks PCM rates by nmma standards 343 hp, 430lb ft, http://www.pleasurecraft.com/NewFiles/catflyer.pdf

Unless ilmor using SAE power ratings there should be no difference favoring the mv8. And I believe they do use the nmma or sae system. Indmar does not. Notice that Indmar does not announce power on their website? They leave it up to the boat manufacturers to chalk up the ratings. This is why the Mcx motor magically dropped from 350 hp to 308 when mc came out with ilmors My theory is that their motors are not rated by a common system rendering them irrelevant and unpublished by Indmar.

What's the difference between the motors? More than likely Intake, exhausts, fuel pumps, injectors, cranks, cooling systems, ecu, tune. A differences in those components and a proper tune can easily result in 20 plus hp differences.

The difference is in the application of power. I've driven all three, the torque on the PCM is Very noticeable. It's a donkey kick at the end of the rope if you jam the power on. The ilmor is much more lively but the power comes later. The motor loves to rev up high, especially in/after corners and such, like the power is way up high at 5500 rpm and its reaching for it, the PCM never exceeds 4200 rpm to maintain speed and cruises at wb speed at 3200 rpm. The Indmar feels less powerful and less lively. Both indmars and ilmor are in x25s with same prop and stock 805 lbs of ballast. PCM references are from my tige with 2200lbs of ballast. This is my theory/thoughts on the issue.

[shawndoggy]

That's BS. Here it is folks PCM rates by nmma standards 343 hp, 430lb ft, http://www.pleasurecraft.com/NewFiles/catflyer.pdf

What's the difference between the motors? More than likely Intake, exhausts, fuel pumps, injectors, cranks, cooling systems, ecu, tune. A differences in those components and a proper tune can easily result in 20 plus hp differences.

Fuel injectors and cranks are the same across all of these motors. You are crazy if you think that PCM buys an assembled long block from GM and then tears it down and puts in a different crank.

Remember too that none of these motors receive a "proper tune," as they are universally tuned to run on 87 octane gas.

Until you try each manufacturer's motor in the very same hull, through the same transmission and vdrive, you are comparing apples to oranges.

[JreisRZR]

I have run an Indmar and ilmor 5.7 in the same hull. There's a huge difference

[JreisRZR]

I meant crank pulley, lightweight pulleys like the ones ilmor uses have potential to increase power by reduction in a rotating mass. And fuel injectors the same? Can you verify that? I cant but im speculating the reasons for power differences comsidering they use (at least PCM) rating standards in the marine industry...Perhaps they just buy the block and add the other components? Is that a stretch? The PDF you posted indicates a complete motor with only 295 hp and 365 lb foot, none of the motors make that little power, are you suggesting its all bs or are they changing things to get power gains?
The differences I listed could easily result in the differences in power. Just because the ecu(which is optional on the posted) is the same doesn't mean the mapping on it is the same..if they are the same then why does PCM recommend 87, Indmar 89, and ilmor 93 octane fuels for prime power I'm their 5.7s? How does PCM make a 6.0 with 409 and 450 hp? is it magic?
Why the sudden drop in the Mcx power then over one year? Sorry I just don't buy it. I think they buy a block and add their own components afterwards and apply their own maps to the ecu resulting in differences in total power and the power curves of the motors and or use different standards to rate their boats. I can assue you the ilmor has more power than the Indmar 5.7. I've driven both in x25s...

Maybe the powers at be can shed some light on these conjectures because Indmar and ilmors rating systems are awfully foggy

[talltigeguy]

I have run an Indmar and ilmor 5.7 in the same hull. There's a huge difference

Are you sure it was the same prop and tranny?

[JreisRZR]

Are you sure it was the same prop and tranny?

To my knowledge the prop is the same, it wasn't changed from the factory on either boat but I didn't swim under each and look. No I don't know the drive ratio, but the ilmor, like I said is much more lively like its always revving to ramp up power such as a round corners, although this could be related to the zero off vs pp, I should also be clear that I'm talking about the Mcx motor which states it requires 89.


http://www.indmar.com/mobile/perform...ibrations.aspx
http://www.indmar.com/mobile/perform...rformance.aspx

[Bogdog]

It's just odd that a MC dealer tried to bring up the same thing to me. When I asked where that test was at he couldn't tell me. Just that it came from MC themselves. He gave the the " can you believe that PCM 303 only puts out like 260 hp?"

MC has a poster at the boat shows, look for it, the bottom has a chart with these #'s on. I don't believe they make a bad product, in fact none of these guys would be around if they did. I did ask for a copy of that to take to tige so they could explain and the Factory rep said he wasn't sure they could do that. Bottom line is, if the tige only put out 100hp and made a wake like ive been seeing with you guys I'd still buy it, it's and emotive decision for most of us, not really practical.

[dom w. forte]

This is nothing new with MC , they have pushed for years that their Chevys were better than everybody eles Chevy, My favorite is when they made a big deal about having a Caddy Northstar in their boats, it was an Esqlade 6.0 AKA Chevy, technically the Northstar was the 32valve engine.

[houstonshark]

I had a similar experience with a MC salesman and factory rep. They just couldn't believe that someone would buy a Tige over a MC if they were the same price. They made some pretty dumb comments but never mentioned the power differences.

I demo'd a X2 and a RZR back to back. I didn't notice any power difference at all between the two. The Tige had the EX343 and the MC had whatever comperable motor. They were both 2011's so the MC could have still been the Indmar.

The MC motor was quite a bit meaner and louder. I could see this being annoying after awhile though.

The Tige handled better for sure. Wakeboard and slalom wakes were comperable with similar ballast though the Tige was a lot more adjustable with the TAPS plate. The difference in the surf wake was laughable.

MC X2:


RZR:


It was cold and choppy that day and we really didn't spend any time dialing the Tige or it would have been much nicer.

[WakerideN]

I tent to think unless you get an independent 3rd party to back up any MC sales or corporate office claim its just that a claim. lets say that in theory a PCM 343 does drop some percentage.

the laws of physics are going to apply across the board, and the loss
points that be will apply to any engine \ tranfer case, so lets see what MC loss is as well. then we can talk apples to apples.

At least you guys has an MC dealer telling you this crap, hahaa i had a supra dealer telling me my under floor tanks where going to sink my boat to the bottom, and what a bad setup that was. along with anything under the water line was not ballast that it was neurtal wieght...hahah

the awesome thing about this was this year supra came out with "liquid lead" LOL guess that was not the case ehhh? LOL