Interesting Claim by MC sales person.

[Bogdog]

So I've been shopping for boats through the winter and finally put the deposit down on a new Tige yesterday at the Calgary boat show. In a follow up call from the MC rep he again claimed that independent studies from the California emissions control board(pardon if i have this wrong) has showed that the PCM 343 puts out 277 HP and their equivalent Ilmor 320HP.
I haven't heard anyone here complain about any lack of power so my question is: Whats this all about, does anyone care to comment?

The MC rep seemed quite shocked that even if he would match the price of the Tige i would still choose the Tige. One question the factory rep had some difficulty with was, if you use 2x as much fibreglass and have all these Steel Braces in your boat that Tige doesn't, why does your boat weigh less?

Does anyone here have an unbiased opinion?

[boardman74]

You know I heard the exact same thing from a MC dealer when we were looking. Only it was about the 303 I have in the RZR. He claimed they only put out 260hp or something like that. I was pretty surprised and asked where that was published. he said they were getting that from MC corporate and didn't have the documentation themselves. I have never been able to find it written down, but did here a similar thing oddly enough also from a MC dealer.

My thing is this, towboats are a competitive market and no one makes their own engines. I would think all the engines would have to be rated the same way. I believe HP numbers are rated at the flywheel. So if a PCM engine is losing 25% thru the drive train why wouldn't an Indmar or Ilmor or Mercruiser, or whatever? Or does MC claim their Vdrive and trany are that much more efficient?

I'd like to see the numbers where they are getting it. I'm not saying it's true or not just interested in seeing the testing they claim to be quoting.

[chpthril]

Thats a



is all I can say

[chpthril]

I would tell the MC rep that those HP numbers didnt apply since you live in CA

[rensink]

There's a buffer range that they can fudge the numbers I believe and why would any go down? Regardless it seems that with both MC salesman saying the same thing about two different motors sounds a little fishy or a little miss communication between corporate and the salesman.

[surfsup]

Is this the 2x fiberglass and steel MC?

[boardman74]

I did a little research and here's the area they are trying to work. Our engines are hp rated at the flywheel. They are trying to say by the time the power gets to the prop there is only 277 prop hp vs the 343 engine hp. That may very well be true, but explain to me why your Ilmor doesn't have the same parasitic loss thru the drive train.

Outboard used to be rated at the powerhead up until the early 80's. They on average showed about a 10% loss thru their drive train to the prop. A 50 hp for example only showed 44-45 hp at the prop for most manufacturers. Now outboards are hp rated at the prop, so a 50 hp is 50 hp at the prop. Mercury used their old 50 hp power heads well into the 90's because they were bullet proof and people loved them. They marketed them as the "classic 45".

Bottom line is any drive train is going to have parasitic loss. In cars the have engine hp and then bhp at the wheels. Boats, cars, tractors, construction equipment nothing is exempt. There's a cost getting that power to the ground(or water). Then you have slippage and other factors.

I'd really like to see this test and have the MC guy explain to me why their engine and trans set up has so much less loss. I believe they are using the same general driveline components as everyone else. Only a few manufacturers of engines, transmissions,and V drives in the inboard market. I'd think they would all be competitive or they wouldn't last.

[Dreamer]

The PCM engine is much more efficient than Ilmore and Mercury of the same displacement. The 343 hp in a Centurion SV233 uses about 5 gallons an hour wakesurfing. With similar ballast the X30 or mercury in an SV230 are using 8 gallons an hour.

[JreisRZR]

Both motors are rated for SAE net power. INDMARS used by mc were not

[boardman74]

That video is crazy. That dude is shaking the whole boat with the tower. Thats scary.

[infotom]

That video is crazy. That dude is shaking the whole boat with the tower. Thats scary.

x2!!!!!

[talltigeguy]

I sort of am an unbiased owner on this sort of thing, having owned 2 Tiges, an MC and a Malibu. Tige still holds a special place in my heart, and this site always has good people teaching me new things, so I keep coming back, but also frequent some of the other sites as well.

That video is crazy. That dude is shaking the whole boat with the tower. Thats scary.

As far as the video goes, that was a collossal MC failure. The structural supports for the tower were not installed on the boat show boat. They were so excited to have people see the power tower, that they hurriedly installed it. That is mentioned in the comments portion of the original videos. The towers and boats do not flex or rattle anything like that. The power tower is a joke, not because it is unstable, but because the lifting mechanism keeps breaking all the time. In Salt Lake City, they order most of the boats with the manual tower, and after seeing it in person a few months ago, it has grown on me. The tower itself is nice and solid. I personally wouldn't avoid an MC because of the tower, unless it had the power tower on it. And the hulls are solid, rivaling the hull you find on a Tige.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but that should probably be said.

The PCM engine is much more efficient than Ilmore and Mercury of the same displacement. The 343 hp in a Centurion SV233 uses about 5 gallons an hour wakesurfing. With similar ballast the X30 or mercury in an SV230 are using 8 gallons an hour.

I think that might be true, but I also believe that the Tige hull is a good part of the reason for better mileage. Tige's hulls seem to be more efficient.

I have never been in an Ilmor powered MC, but I have a hard time beleiving that what they are saying is true...and if what the MC salesman are saying is true, it has no relevance when actually out using the boat. We have not seen on this discussion board many wishes for additional power. Desperate sales tactic if you ask me.

[dom w. forte]

HP is really of no value for it doenst move the mass, Torque of the engine movies mass and you can only generate so much out of 350 no matter who builds it, you can move the Torque curve up and down the rpm scale with sacrifices at either end of the spectrem, what you see when you go to a 6.0l is an increase from 3.48 stroke to 3.62 stroke , both engines are 4.05 bore aprox, Indmar 6.2l hammerhead was a 5.7l block with a 4.0 stroke which gave them 400hp the same as the 6.0l, but the addittional stroke gave it alot more torque and was very strong in a wakeboard boat loaded with way over factory ballast, but there was abig sacrifice in top speed because you couldnt push the RPM as high.
So bottom line I dont care what the MC rep or salesman has to say about HP go to boattest . com and see how fast a MC goes on plane, 0 to 30 or 0 to 40!!!!!!!!

[shawndoggy]

The PCM engine is much more efficient than Ilmore and Mercury of the same displacement. The 343 hp in a Centurion SV233 uses about 5 gallons an hour wakesurfing. With similar ballast the X30 or mercury in an SV230 are using 8 gallons an hour.

Uh, I'm gonna call BS on that. The 5.7L long block in the PCM 343, Indmar monsoon (and its variants), the Ilmor MV8, the Mercruiser Scorpion, etc, etc, is....

THE EXACT SAME GM MARINE LONG BLOCK. Same block, crank, pistons, rods, rings, cam, heads, valves, etc.

http://gmpowertrain.com/Libraries/Ma...rine.sflb.ashx

The difference between the Ilmor and PCM motors are:

a. ECM tune (again, AFAIK, they all use the same GM MEFI ECMs)
b. intake, exhaust, cats and
c. accessories (raw rater pump, alternator, fuel pump)

So you can tear down an ilmor motor and a pcm motor, exchange the items listed above, and the ilmor will run just the same as a pcm and vice versa.

If a 5.7L motor is more efficient in one boat than another, it's probably got a lot more to do with the hull than the motor.

[wakemongrel]

wow

Did you ask to see the results of that study from the California corn dog institute in writing? If there was better boat out there, we would have it. Case closed........