How to spot an early build Z3

[Duncan]

I called the dealership first, and they are, & were aware of at least 2 hull designs on the Z3. They are the ones that gave me Tony's email address. They seem to be quite helpful & have been trying to go that extra mile to make sure I'm satisfied. I had a few minor issues that I brought to their attention when I took the boat in for its first service. While they weren't all fixed at that time, they assured me they would be taken care of when I brought it back at the end of the season.

In my mind, the issue is not what the dealer did AFTER the sale but rather BEFORE the sale. Spectrum of offensiveness as follows:

A. informed buyer this was a prototype model known to have issues with the surf and wakeboard wake and provided a discount accordingly. Yeah! Great dealer.

B. Silent as to issues with surf and wakeboard wake but did provide a discount over what a later Z3 would retail. Mad at dealer. Grumble, grumble.

C. Silent as to issues with surf and wakeboard wake and sold for what a later Z3 would retail. Pissed at dealer.


Edit: None of the above suggests that Tige's role here is above reproach. In fact, if Tige decided to introduce these boats into the stream of commerce under the "Z3" moniker, they should have made sure the dealer fully informed the buyer.

[robert theisen]

This may have been a process of getting the boat to market then improving it.The dealer may not have known at the time of sale that this boat had issues.The bottom line is Tige made the boat,recognized it wasn't the best they could do,improved it and is now working with the owners of the boats with issues.Of course you can tell i would prefer to deal straight with Tige on issues. I believe discussing it with others only gets you stirred up unnecessarily.The quiet and professional approach always results in more complete and cooperative service and warranty work.Manufacturers hear you when you talk and ask questions and have concerns.When you come in blasting horns and go off with both barrels they wonder if they can make you happy.So they then decide when they should cut their losses.In business you always want to help a customer with legitimate concerns.You also wonder if you can ever make someone happy that goes off and bad mouths you to everyone they know.Just my

[383ws6]

As a business owner myself, I completely agree with everything you just said Robert. I honestly just want the boat I was told I was buying, not a prototype. My wife & I spent a couple of months, and hundreds, if not thousands of dollars just looking for "the right boat". In 2 months, we drove to Lubbock, Abilene, San Angelo, Dallas, Houston (boat show), Austin, Shreveport, & finally back to Ft Worth just to look at and sit in every boat on the market. I was actually sold on a RZ2, but was talked into the Z3 when we were told how much better the surfing would be. I feel we were given an great price on our Z3, if we had actually gotten a production Z3. I'm not on here to place blame, and honestly, I don't care who's to blame. I just want what I paid for.

[ragboy]

One thing I should clarify in case it came from something I said is that the only "prototype" I know of was the black/green Z3 that we had and that is in all the brochure and video shoots. The blue one on ebay and probably 383s boat are production, I guess just 1.0, and then there was a 1.1 after that, so to speak. That is just FYI, not to change anything regarding 383s issue.

[talltigeguy]

One thing I should clarify in case it came from something I said is that the only "prototype" I know of was the black/green Z3 that we had and that is in all the brochure and video shoots. The blue one on ebay and probably 383s boat are production, I guess just 1.0, and then there was a 1.1 after that, so to speak. That is just FYI, not to change anything regarding 383s issue.

Only Tige knows how many were made before version 1.1 came out, but I do remember one member posting about their new Z3 before Ragboy got involved. It was in the Northeast IIRC. He posted some pictures of a mediocre surf wave and I couldn't help but recall my experience with Ragboy's original boat.

[NICKYPOO]

My browser shows Timmy's pics side-by-side. I assume the one on the right is the newer version?

On the newer version, in addition to the outside chine being removed, it looks like the entire hull has a shallower angle. Or, is that just an optical illusion?

Optical illusion. The camera angle is slightly different.

I think that is because they didn't "chop off" the chine, they basically "filled in" the space.

Correct. I think what they did was fill in the chine on the mold. Is that what your saying? That would be the easiest, most cost effective way of fixing the molds. Molds ain't cheap. Simply "filling in" the hull would be an immense amount of material and weight and... Negative. Dropping the hull down (by altering the molds super nightmare, probably just start over) to meet the edge of the chine would be a complete new hull geometry and would require more modifications down the assembly line, mainly the stringers and anything below floor would have to be st least considered. $$$. So ya, chine is gone by altering the mold. Whether they were cut or just filled in, I don't know.

Which explains why less list is required to get a similar wave. List drops the angle of the hull, so it is more horizontal. If Tige "filled in" that area, then the angle is already lower so it takes less tilt to achieve the same relationship to the water.

Soon we'll all be surfing behind flat-bottomed bass boats....

Look at the platform mounts on the left side of the picture. If they altered the bottom geometry to meet the chine, there would be a much bigger gap between the bracket mount and the running surface. I'd say it looks to be pretty damn close between the two hulls.

I have a flat bottom boat. Shhh.

[dingleberry]

Correct. I think what they did was fill in the chine on the mold. Is that what your saying?

No, I wasn't saying that they filled in the chine space on the hull mold.

Based on Tige's comments to duffy when he was considering removing the chines on his 24V, my understanding was that they essentially left the tip of the chine in the same location and changed the running surface to extend to that point. Yes, that would involve a new mold for production.

Maybe my understanding was incorrect.

[NICKYPOO]

No, I wasn't saying that they filled in the chine space on the hull mold.

Based on Tige's comments to duffy when he was considering removing the chines on his 24V, my understanding was that they essentially left the tip of the chine in the same location and changed the running surface to extend to that point. Yes, that would involve a new mold for production.

Maybe my understanding was incorrect.

That would be insanity. Hmm. Maybe Duffy can shed some light.

[ragboy]

I can tell you that the chines was one of the things we pointed out would probably make a difference if removed. I meant, cut them off so to speak, but Rick told me they instead filled them in, understanding that that was easier in their mold process. The resulting boat was fantastic, so no complaint from us. However, I would still love to see what the effect would be to cut them off instead, on the wakeboard and wakesurf wake.

[IDBoating]

"Fill them in" could mean 1) stick an insert into the chine area on the mold so the chines themselves aren't as prominent; or 2) redo the mold so the psuedo-triangular area between the keel and the chine is "filled in".

The first would be easiest on the mold and the wallet, but may not have yielded the desired performance. The latter would reduce (what I believe is called) the deadrise angle, thereby enabling the same hull angle to be achieved with less tilt - but at the cost of radically modifying the mold.

We just need clarification.

[NICKYPOO]

Oh, I get it. Ok.

[jrobertson]

One thing I should clarify in case it came from something I said is that the only "prototype" I know of was the black/green Z3 that we had and that is in all the brochure and video shoots. The blue one on ebay and probably 383s boat are production, I guess just 1.0, and then there was a 1.1 after that, so to speak. That is just FYI, not to change anything regarding 383s issue.

There is 1 more "prototype" Blue and grey was the other photoshoot boat along with the Black and green. It was purchased by my local dealer and sold locally and sits just a few houses down from my buddy. However in this case the deal was very clear with the customer that this was a "prototype" and would not make a very good surf wave.

[NICKYPOO]

"Fill them in" could mean 1) stick an insert into the chine area on the mold so the chines themselves aren't as prominent; or 2) redo the mold so the psuedo-triangular area between the keel and the chine is "filled in".

The first would be easiest on the mold and the wallet, but may not have yielded the desired performance. The latter would reduce (what I believe is called) the deadrise angle, thereby enabling the same hull angle to be achieved with less tilt - but at the cost of radically modifying the mold.

We just need clarification.

I think they just "filled in" the space from the edge of the chine to the running surface, not the keel. No change in deadrise.

[IDBoating]

I think they just "filled in" the space from the edge of the chine to the running surface, not the keel. No change in deadrise.

In other words, they made the chine "wider"? I'll go back and look at the photos again.

EDIT: Nope, I'm going with "they filled in the area between the keel and the chine". In the photos posted by Timmy in this thread, look carefully at two things. First, the "tip" of the chine relative to the trailer bunk. In the prototype photo, the chine tip is halfway down the bunk; in the production photo it's just barely below the bunk top. That could be explained by "filling in" the chine area in the mold, but consider item #2. There is a box-like protrusion of some sort coming off the transom at the extreme left edge of both photos. I presume this is the mounting surface for the starboard swim platform support. In the prototype photo, its bottom edge is much closer to the bottom of the hull than in the production photo. The production photo's hull is lower relative to the swim platform mount. Simply filling in the chine area of the mold wouldn't cause that - but filling in the HULL (i.e. deepening the mold) between the keel and the chine would. And when the hull's bottom surface was "lowered" by being filled in, it would "raise" the chine's edge thereby also explaining item #1 above.

I'm reading a lot into just two photos, but that's my best guess at the moment.

[JreisRZR]

There is 1 more "prototype" Blue and grey was the other photoshoot boat along with the Black and green. It was purchased by my local dealer and sold locally and sits just a few houses down from my buddy. However in this case the deal was very clear with the customer that this was a "prototype" and would not make a very good surf wave.

bingo, thats because long lake is a stellar dealer.

I talked to the factory rep at the show and he said the wakeboard wake came from the center of the hull, so unless there were a few other changes the wakeboard wake should be largely the same.