Getting it off my chest!

[CessnaCaptain]

I have had this dilema in my mind for some time and have now decided to put it to the forum. But first, I am once again leaning towards a new Tige' instead of the other choices. I am just working thru some issues.

1. Here it goes. Why does it seem that most of the new Tige's have Marine Power engines?

2. Why are they making that their standard engine and leaving PCM as an option?

3. Are they better or do they just leave room for a higher profit margin?

4. Why isn't their more information out there, Performance stats, and reviews on one versus the other, etc so that we can make our own choices?

I am all for listening to my dealer but I want to be able to make an informed decision myself since this is a large investment, but I am less than pleased about the disinformation campaign that is out there on these engines and as to why Tige is leaning towards one versus the other.

I also understand that we need to support our dealers, but not giving us the proper manuals, part numbers, and performance stats on both brands and both sizes of motors is wrong. Myself and many other I assume love working on our boats and find it rude slash greedy that the proper part numbers aren't in the manuals. I am paying for it why should I have to play private detective to get the numbers. I have to view this as disinformation and wonder why?

I stand corrected. Their is another motor option that has slid in under the sheath of disinfo, the Marine Power 355/350 "hot" motor. This motor isn't even discussed on the web??????

So many options and so little info.

WHY4HOWCOME?

CC

[condor86]

Hello Captain.

I will try to give you my perspective on why Tige pushes the MP (marine power engine) over other engines. Keep in mind that i have a heavy Mercruiser background so a lot of the comparisons i will use relate to Mercury products...

First, the warranty on MP is excellent - 3 years
Next, the do some innovaive things, ie Top mount starter (easy to get to- just open the engine hatchand look down, tada there it is) this also keeps the starter high and dry. Some other cool things include crankcase driven water pump- will let you limp home if all belts break, twin belts also help in that department, if one breaks you ahve another, plastisol oil pan cover is nice, prevents rusting, the exhaust manifolds are cool too, they are essentially headers, instead of being one hollow chamber.

There are a lot more benefits, those are all i have time for right now.

Tige also uses MP because they are simply amazing engines. I dont think that any other manufacturer can claim more horsepower per cubic inch....that is always a good feature!

I will write more later tonight, my wife is bugging me that we have to get going......

Oh, their fuel cooling system is second to none, maybe i can send a picture to you later.... (never experienced vapor lock yet)

[Bog]

it is simple, Marine Power was and kinda still is unproven. Those companies need to do alot more to get their foot in the door!!! I love PCM and would spend the extra on it but have heard good things about MP too.........

[Dan]

One word- Indmar.

[CessnaCaptain]

Thanks condor 86

I can't wait to hear the rest of your observations & awnsers to the other ?'s.

[rollo]

dont know anything but that its a 350 with 340hp and I love it should I know more,its a GM motor right ?

[condor86]

Ok captain, i am back for a bit.

I think that Tige is pursuing MP as 'their' primary engine of choice because it is just that, it is "Theirs". I think there is an agreement that MP makes engines only for Tige (as far as towboats are concerned). I did hear the history of MP once, and what i walked away from was that they have been making marine engines for a long time 40+ years??? A large portion of their motors in end in bigger boats. And i remember them being concerned with performance- this sounds silly, but not all engine manufacturers are all that concerned with performance. Sometimes price is the bottom line, sometimes appearance, sometimes size, etc.

The PCM motor is a fine choice, i believe it costs a little more, but the choice is yours, and i think that alone is awesome. You have at least 3 engine manufacturers available for your liking. I cannot think of another inboard company that offers more flexibility.

Finally, I think that Tige supports MP because they are an awesome company, and GREAT to deal with. Eddie Albright, the owner of MP, is a down to earth guy who works extremely hard to make his engines number one in our boat. Here is a true story, you can verify it by contacting Ski Dog Sports in Washington. A customer bought a new Tige with a MP 340hp and was having problems with it (this happens, i always say if it has gas running thru it, it will break down!). Well his problems turned to major problems and the boat was relatively new and the customer had family coming into town for an on the water vacation. Once Ski Dog determined that it needed a new motor, MP paid to have one OVERNIGHTED. AIR FREIGHT!!! The freight bill was $4000 dollars. This type of customer service is unheard of. Again, i come from a Mercruiser background and i never once experienced this to any degree.

Eddie Albright is constantly attending our events, constantly coming to the factory to try new motors, and to help in R&D. I cant say enough about MP.

About the 'hot' motor- well that was supposed to be a 'black-op' but the secret got out! It is not available and was only put in a handful of boats for testing purposes. I have heard that there is a supercharged 6.0 in the makings.....Oops i'd better not get into trouble for that!

Hope this helps. Please ask me anything else that you have on your mind.

condor

[CessnaCaptain]

Getting it all on the line.

How come MP doesn't post it's performance stats & charts so that we can fully compare motors. I'd like to see a torque curve/rpm chart. Also I've read complaints from customers about getting a generic motor manual that really didn't fit their boat. And parts/engine info that made hunting parts/filters cumbersome. \

I guess why not fully disclose the information if they are so proud of it!

Our local dealer has hot motors on some of his boats, but if I can't see the difference, especially b/c I can't get a chart on a standard motor, then why would I upgrade?

[condor86]

Captain~

I will try to get Eddie A. to comment on this, i will call him tomorrow and see what he says.
As far as the specifications, i know a lot of manufacturers dont publish them- not certain why.

I sense your frustration, and although this wont help, here is a little info about the marine business as a whole. I take it you are a pilot perhaps? Or into planes? Well i understand where you are coming from because (i imagine) with an airplane your life depends on the mechanics of the plane operating properly etc etc. I have sold many different types, and brands of boats, and they simply do not provide very good operational manuals. Nothing like the automotive industry. Today owner's manuals for boats are non-descript, vague, and do not necessarily apply to the model you bought, but instead to the general line of boat. It is strange but it is the truth.

I will now try again to post some pictures of engines, but i am not having any luck shrinking them down so this site will accept them!

[condor86]

notice top mount starter

[condor86]

Here is the cool fuel system

Also i think you can see the crankcase driven water pump on the right

[whitlock87]

I am not sure about specs, but I have the MP340 in my boat and love it.
I get better GPH then most. (I am averaging 4.7GPH)
As far as pep goes, a friend of mine has a DD with a Mercury 350 in it.
From a dead stop I blow him away. He tops out at 43 and I top out at 49.
I know he is getting around 6.5GPH. Our boats are similar in size.

(Side note about Tige, my friends boat only has a 20-gallon tank and ours came with a 38-gallon tank. Take this in to consideration with gas usage, and I can stay out almost the whole day, while he has to refill some time twice in one day)

[CessnaCaptain]

THANKS WHITLOCK

That is useful information. I appreciate the response.

[gman]

cessnacaptain
I asked MP many of the questions you are asking. The response I received was interesting;
In regards to torque the resoponse was we do not have that info and do not publish torque curves and values and do not rate engine on torque.
As far as having the wrong horsepower listed in the manual the response was they are stretching the rating and it depends how you measure it. WOW!
As far as the contradiction on oil types, the resonse was that the manual is not the best and is something to be desired! This is MP telling me this! I did get an answer from them on type of oil filter to be used.
I asked for an updated manual and am still waiting.
The suggestion is made that MP is in the business for 40 + years. You would think they would be a little better in writing manuals and providing details,part numbers, ratings, responses etc. They give you the feeling of not being a quality operation, however, shipping a motor as is suggested in one of the responses, is excellent service. Would be nice to know the problem with the engine however. Just for your info, Indmar also has a 3 year warranty. You can also view the Indmar maintenace manual on the web and it is quite comprehensive with charts and part numbers for all their engines. You may want to view this for yourself and compare it. I have the mp 340hp and so far it seems like a strong engine, runs smooth and I have no complaints about its performance. As best as I can tell, My boat consumes about 6.5 to 7 gal per hr.

[condor86]

Hi Captain,

This is the 3rd time i have tried writing this darn email. I left a message with MP about your specifications and i dont know when i can get back to this site for an answer as i am traveling all day today and working all weekend.

Regarding information that you receive in forums, well take it for what it is, many people think they are experts when it comes to stuff like this.....i am just sharing my thoughts and opinions.

Someone mentioned that they were stretching there rated horsepower- well that is not the case. If someone at MP said that (which i doubt) they were most likely referring to set guidelines that are understood when dynoing (is that a word) an engine. The same engine will often give different horsepowers, or the similar engine will test higher or lower than the previous engine, so the manufacturers have a 10% margin. Follow me on this one? It is the same for cars, i have a corvette that claims 350 horsepower, but when dynoed it would most likely be less due to a number of things. So all engine manufacturers use a 'buffer' to when they make claims toward horsepower.

There is nothing wrong with this, and MP isnt trying to 'dupe' anyone or stretch their ratings.....

Oh, mercruiser, which has to be the largest maker of marine engines, doesnt measure there boats on torque either.


If i were to purchase a boat and MP was an option i would definitely want it in my boat. I hope that you end up with one, as i know you will enjoy the performance and economy. Happy hunting and let us know what you decided to go with.

condor