malibus new surf gate wave

[IDBoating]

I believe a patent only require 20% modification to not be an infringement (because you can only patent design, not idea) and this is of course is subjective or argumentative.

There is no threshold like that. Something either infringes or it doesn't. Someone who takes your idea and adds an extra fin/color/whatever still infringes because your concept is still embodied as a subset of what they've done. It actually has to be DIFFERENT to avoid infringement.

And then, even if they do something slightly different, a Continuation (basically, a later patent based off the same application and thus able to claim its earlier priority date) makes it possible for the original inventor to write claims AFTER the later modification, and thus tailor the new claims to encompass the new thing. If issued, the subsequent patent will then reach back to the earlier date and instantly make their supposedly "safe" alteration a huge problem involving past damages, future licensing costs, and lots of attorney fees. It's usually easier and ultimately far less expensive to just strike a deal up front so everyone can proceed with some predictability.

Anywho...what happened to the bazillions of attorneys who put up mega advertisements saying, "have and idea? Patent it". It was a craze about 10+ years ago. Where did they all go? Did the US patent office put an ethical end to that madness?

No, they're still out there on late night cable TV ads, but they're just as bogus as ever.

I'm sure Bu patent their wakegate (wastegate) idea, but that's not going to stop others from adopting the idea on their boats because they'll just change it slightly (maybe improve).

As noted above, "change it slightly" isn't enough. It would have to be radically different. Trust me, I've made many trips back to the DC suburb where the Patent Office HQ is now located (and to Crystal City before that) to argue this exact issue face to face with their Examiners and the Appeals Board. The proper term of art is "obviousness", and they are exceedingly hardnosed about it.

And yet, that's the whole point of the patent system. You are given a government-issued monopoly in trade for revealing your invention in the hopes that it will inspire others to further push the envelope. The alternative is to hold it as a trade secret, which doesn't seed the creativity of others and thus doesn't push society forward as effectively. Perhaps no one will be able to avoid paying Malibu a fee for similar designs - but it may also stimulate someone to come up with a different way of accomplishing the same thing in an entirely different way (I've got one idea myself, in fact).

Have a brother-in-law who sells the big patents worth 10 mil and up. Interesting job. He says the average company (as in very large) steals the work then pays up latter to avoid a law suit. The Koreans are the worst, so I'm told.

That might be true internationally, but domestically the usual way it plays out depends upon the size of the players. If the owner is small and the user is large, the user generally buys the patent because they want to control it and use it as a competitive weapon. If the two players are similar size, they use patents and other intellectual property to cross-license with each other - no fees exchanged but a guarantee of no infringement suits, thus nullifying the effects of each other's weapons while still allowing their use against other competitors.

I had one instance where patents I wrote ended up as an element of a huge suit/countersuit between two ~$1B titans. My company was vanishingly small by comparison, but we saw an opportunity. We approached both and offered the patents to the first company to pay our price. The cash changed hands, and the three year lawsuit ended a month later with the non-buyer capitulating to the new owner with the typical cross-licensing deal.

I often describe myself in these deals as an "arms dealer". I'm small, and don't personally represent a threat to any of the titans clashing around me, but I have weapons for sale to the highest bidder. The question is, which end of my Stinger missiles would you like to be looking at?

Enough on this topic. Let's keep the thread on-topic.

Thanks!

[Nobody]

There is no threshold like that. Something either infringes or it doesn't. Someone who takes your idea and adds an extra fin/color/whatever still infringes because your concept is still embodied as a subset of what they've done. It actually has to be DIFFERENT to avoid infringement.

And then, even if they do something slightly different, a Continuation (basically, a later patent based off the same application and thus able to claim its earlier priority date) makes it possible for the original inventor to write claims AFTER the later modification, and thus tailor the new claims to encompass the new thing. If issued, the subsequent patent will then reach back to the earlier date and instantly make their supposedly "safe" alteration a huge problem involving past damages, future licensing costs, and lots of attorney fees. It's usually easier and ultimately far less expensive to just strike a deal up front so everyone can proceed with some predictability.



No, they're still out there on late night cable TV ads, but they're just as bogus as ever.



As noted above, "change it slightly" isn't enough. It would have to be radically different. Trust me, I've made many trips back to the DC suburb where the Patent Office HQ is now located (and to Crystal City before that) to argue this exact issue face to face with their Examiners and the Appeals Board. The proper term of art is "obviousness", and they are exceedingly hardnosed about it.

And yet, that's the whole point of the patent system. You are given a government-issued monopoly in trade for revealing your invention in the hopes that it will inspire others to further push the envelope. The alternative is to hold it as a trade secret, which doesn't seed the creativity of others and thus doesn't push society forward as effectively. Perhaps no one will be able to avoid paying Malibu a fee for similar designs - but it may also stimulate someone to come up with a different way of accomplishing the same thing in an entirely different way (I've got one idea myself, in fact).



That might be true internationally, but domestically the usual way it plays out depends upon the size of the players. If the owner is small and the user is large, the user generally buys the patent because they want to control it and use it as a competitive weapon. If the two players are similar size, they use patents and other intellectual property to cross-license with each other - no fees exchanged but a guarantee of no infringement suits, thus nullifying the effects of each other's weapons while still allowing their use against other competitors.

I had one instance where patents I wrote ended up as an element of a huge suit/countersuit between two ~$1B titans. My company was vanishingly small by comparison, but we saw an opportunity. We approached both and offered the patents to the first company to pay our price. The cash changed hands, and the three year lawsuit ended a month later with the non-buyer capitulating to the new owner with the typical cross-licensing deal.

I often describe myself in these deals as an "arms dealer". I'm small, and don't personally represent a threat to any of the titans clashing around me, but I have weapons for sale to the highest bidder. The question is, which end of my Stinger missiles would you like to be looking at?

Enough on this topic. Let's keep the thread on-topic.

Thanks!

Who's going to volunteer to clone Bu's wastegate?? The hell with patents!

[Fiveflat]

That's too much to read. Just show me more surf gate video!

[MikeD]

malibus new surf gate wave

How did we go from ^^^^^^ to all this .
Start another Thread

[shawndoggy]

Who's going to volunteer to clone Bu's wastegate?? The hell with patents!

lots of examples already.

[What she said]

Im ready to ride the wave of the surf gate, cause i have rode lots of BU waves and they do not compare to the Tige surf wave excluding the 247 that i have never been behind, and would never own cause it will not fit in my garage.

[Nobody]

malibus new surf gate wave

How did we go from ^^^^^^ to all this .
Start another Thread

Daaa, we're are talking about Bu's PATENTED waste gate.

[laserfish]

Someone needs to take a 21v or a 23v and make these to go in the chine cutouts. Now that would be sick!!

Now that is an idea!! Fill in the spray pockets with a gate. Hmmmmmm, winter project?? I need to see the gates in person. Ideas ideas.

[turbonine]

Just got word Grubb did a 360 transfer. Video should be up soon.

[adamsjstt]

Im testing it today.

[konajay]

This is going to be very interesting.....

[duffymahoney]

Nice work! I hope it doesn't make that goofy lip that all the pictures and videos show of the malibu boats!

[adamsjstt]

Only been on the water for 15 minutes and damn what a difference. More push and 5 ft more pocket. I just learned to surf wireless and with this modification it is way easy. Haven't even tried to adjust anything cause it works awesome just like it is. It is hard to experiment with the gate when it worksas good as it does. Best thing the boat sits level.

[skippabcool]

Cool Adam. Do you have it on both sides or only one?

[adamsjstt]

The "gate " is only on the starboard side. Im sure I can experiment with the height and length as well as angle and make it even better but right now im surfin