malibus new surf gate wave

[st68]

I just found this on youtube, this certainly introduces a new set of tricks

[adamsjstt]

Saw this video from the WW Surfgate thread, I can't wait to see if Duffmahoney or Nickypoo are going to add vertical trim plates to their boats. Looks like you don't need hydro either, but it would be nice to just use hydro and pop out the tabs.

So it works on a centurion anybody tried it on a TIGE yet? My boat is a hour and a half from home but from looking at pictures it looks like I can attach a home made surf gate tab to the swim deck mounting bracket. Maybe ill try to get it done before labor day weekend. I no on my RZ2 before I pull the boat out of the water I put taps on 8 and go about 12mph so that the water can be pumped out by the bilge. When doing so the wave is huge and I have always said if I could clean it up that it would be a awesome surf wave. Maybe this is what im looking for.

[thtrog]

Check it, this is just the begining....

http://vimeo.com/47877912?action=share

[Bruizza]

That video is pretty impressive ET.

[550orm5]

sweet video. While this is cool, I don't see how much larger it is than the wake on my 2003 Tige 22V. (400lbs up front, 1200 in the rear). Yes I understand that you can switch between goofy and regular on the fly...but does it actually make the wake larger or better?

[MikeD]

That video is pretty impressive ET.

X2

[Bruizza]

sweet video. While this is cool, I don't see how much larger it is than the wake on my 2003 Tige 22V. (400lbs up front, 1200 in the rear). Yes I understand that you can switch between goofy and regular on the fly...but does it actually make the wake larger or better?

I don't think the main purpose is to increase the wave side. The main selling point IMHO are you just load all you ballast and turn on surfgate so no more serious leaning and as you mentioned you can switch sides very quickly.

[bigskymudflaps]

This thing is crazy. I have always been a person to ask why or how when I don't understand. In doing so about the "surf gate", I have learned a lot. So, why or how does this thing work? I have read a bunch about this and have been around the block a bit on customizing my rz2. I'm sure I'm wrong in some if not most ways, but here it goes:

Big waves are all about displacement (getting as much of the boat in the water as you can). As the boat moves through the water, the water comes back together, causing the wake. The more water you move out of the way, the more potential for having a large wake behind the boat. Some boats like tankers push wakes out from the sides, some boats the water comes back together behind the boat. Some boats have flat bottoms and ride on top of the water and have very little wakes........

Clean big waves come when the displacement comes together behind the boat in a way we all love. It's magic, it's voodoo, it's by accident, and now for surfing, it's by design. Tige did it with the Z3 and now Malibu seems to be doing it with their system. For a clean / big wake, you move a bunch of water out of the way and hope it all comes together in a clean fashion for you to surf. So, how does the surf gate / trim tab on the side work for surfing: In another forum I think they were talking about how the trim tab changes the way the water converges behind the boat (I don't think this is my theory, but I can't remember where I read it). The surf gate doesn't push the boat up or down in the water. I also don't think they twist, yaw, or crab the boat in any significant or material way. The tabs simply push one side's water out farther than the other, thus allowing the water from each side which was displaced to come back together asymmetrically. It's all about the convergence of the two wakes from each side of the boat. By pushing one side out, they come back together at different times or in different ways, leaving one clean and the other mushy. When the convergence is symmetrical, at lower speeds on most boats the wakes have a tendency to mush or cancel each other out. So, to clean up a wake, fiddle with how the water from each side of the boat converges. This can be done with hull design, weighting the boat, trim tabs, wake plates, hydrofoils, or all of the above. It seems like with the simple use of trim tabs, the possibilities for making a good clean wake from otherwise difficult to weight boats is huge--increase displacement and you get a big clean wake. Cleaning up a mastercraft x80's wake with 5k of ballast, I can only imagine.........I love that people are thinking and designing boats with the thought of a surf wake in mind. In all honesty, if this surf gate / trim tab on the side thing works well, I hope Malibu doesn't get patent. It's not like a trim tab is a novel idea. The more people being able to tinker with a surf wake in as many ways as possible, the better for all.

[thtrog]

Bigsky, You're right on target with the converging of the wake. The cool thing is it's not limited to one hull in the Malibu line. It's offered on any of the Wake Setters from a 20 VTX to the new 24 MXZ...patent pending.

[duffymahoney]

I have always wanted to sac out a single screw x80 and see what a bigger boat can do. I bet this technology would totally help!!

[IDBoating]

In all honesty, if this surf gate / trim tab on the side thing works well, I hope Malibu doesn't get patent. It's not like a trim tab is a novel idea.

It's not the moving panel that is innovative, it's how they are using it. This definitely deserves a patent, because it's a novel application. Most inventions (and patents) aren't revolutions created out of whole cloth, but incremental advancements based on creative application of existing technology.

There's a reason patents were included in the original body of the Constitution itself. Creative people should be rewarded for their efforts. If something you invented could immediately be used by anyone without compensation to you, you'd have far less motivation to spend your time and resources developing and perfecting it. All of society benefits when creative people do their thing, and creative people are encouraged to do their thing when they know their efforts will be protected by a patent.

(BTW, I am named as sole or primary inventor on six US Patents and have several more in the pipeline, so I have a LOT of experience in this area.)

[Nobody]

It's not the moving panel that is innovative, it's how they are using it. This definitely deserves a patent, because it's a novel application. Most inventions (and patents) aren't revolutions created out of whole cloth, but incremental advancements based on creative application of existing technology.

There's a reason patents were included in the original body of the Constitution itself. Creative people should be rewarded for their efforts. If something you invented could immediately be used by anyone without compensation to you, you'd have far less motivation to spend your time and resources developing and perfecting it. All of society benefits when creative people do their thing, and creative people are encouraged to do their thing when they know their efforts will be protected by a patent.

(BTW, I am named as sole or primary inventor on six US Patents and have several more in the pipeline, so I have a LOT of experience in this area.)

A patent is only good if you can find a home for it and a way to make money from it. AND....A patent is only worth the amount of money your willing to defend against patent infringement. Ideas cannot be patented either. By chance you happen to win a law suit for patent infringement, you odds of collecting are less than 5%. BTW, I am not an inventor and have no existing patents in the US, but I do have a lot of experience.

[IDBoating]

A patent is only worth the amount of money your willing to defend against patent infringement.

Ah, yes. The old "You're so small, we can ignore your patent" argument. In addition to being unethical, it's also shortsighted.

When people have tried that one on me, I respond "You're right. I am probably too small to prosecute a patent infringement case. However, I'm not the guy you need to worry about. You need to worry about the guy to whom I sell these patents down the road, the guy with pockets deep enough to buy the patents and deep enough to defend them. Now that you've identified your interest in possibly infringing them, I will of course provide the eventual buyer with your contact info so they can use discovery to see if you will owe them treble damages for willful infringement."

I've been working with patents for about three decades, and in each and every case where someone has tried to run this argument on me, I've ended up depositing their licensing check soon after I provide their patent counsel with some version of the above reply. It is an inexperienced and uneducated player who would believe, or fall for, such a line.

[Nobody]

Ah, yes. The old "You're so small, we can ignore your patent" argument. In addition to being unethical, it's also shortsighted.

When people have tried that one on me, I respond "You're right. I am probably too small to prosecute a patent infringement case. However, I'm not the guy you need to worry about. You need to worry about the guy to whom I sell these patents down the road, the guy with pockets deep enough to buy the patents and deep enough to defend them. Now that you've identified your interest in possibly infringing them, I will of course provide the eventual buyer with your contact info so they can use discovery to see if you will owe them treble damages for willful infringement."

I've been working with patents for about three decades, and in each and every case where someone has tried to run this argument on me, I've ended up depositing their licensing check soon after I provide their patent counsel with some version of the above reply. It is an inexperienced and uneducated player who would believe, or fall for, such a line.

I believe a patent only require 20% modification to not be an infringement (because you can only patent design, not idea) and this is of course is subjective or argumentative. Back to the true value of a patent, it needs to make money to be useful. Anywho...what happened to the bazillions of attorneys who put up mega advertisements saying, "have and idea? Patent it". It was a craze about 10+ years ago. Where did they all go? Did the US patent office put an ethical end to that madness?

I'm sure Bu patent their wakegate (wastegate) idea, but that's not going to stop others from adopting the idea on their boats because they'll just change it slightly (maybe improve).

Have a brother-in-law who sells the big patents worth 10 mil and up. Interesting job. He says the average company (as in very large) steals the work then pays up latter to avoid a law suit. The Koreans are the worst, so I'm told.

[duffymahoney]

Someone needs to take a 21v or a 23v and make these to go in the chine cutouts. Now that would be sick!!