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    "Wet" Shaft Seal installation completed!

    As noted elsewhere, last Fall I upgraded to the "wet" style of PSS Shaft Seal during my warranty transmission swap. It was late in the season so we didn't put the boat back in the water - I just winterized it and tucked it away. This meant the wet shaft seal plumbing had to be installed this Spring, before the boat could be launched.

    Reviewing briefly: I ordered PCM's official kit for this purpose (their part number RK024228, "Shaft Seal Suppply Kit", note the extra "p") figuring it would be a good idea to do it the way the factory does. When the kit arrived, however, it was immediately obvious that it wouldn't work. I never did get an explanation from PCM (though they were polite about it). Finally, I discovered that PSS - the makers of the shaft seals - have their own kits available for this purpose. "We got tired of all the phone calls." I ordered that kit yesterday and it arrived today.

    Here are the contents of the PSS kit:



    The kit is complete, even including the hose. They use 3/8ths fuel tank vapor hose, which is a good balance of toughness and flexibility. Flexibility is important because the hose must not put any side load on the carbon ring of the shaft seal - doing so could force it out of alignment.

    They also supply a VERY stout fitting, comprised of (for my engine) a one inch brass fitting with a threaded side port into which is screwed a 3/8ths brass hose nipple. Appropriately sized hose clamps complete the package.

    Here is a closeup of the PSS fitting along with the pieces in the PCM kit:



    At top is the PSS fitting. The lower two parts are the sum total of what was in the plastic bagged PCM kit. Yes, there's a 3/8ths hose nipple. There's also a nice one inch hose coupler. What's missing is any way to connect them together! The coupler does not have a threaded hole on its side like you'd expect. It's simply impossible to use this kit to take water off of an existing hose. Weird, eh?

    On to the installation. First step is to cut a hose into which the fitting will be installed. The PCM engine manual, and their telephone support staff, specifically recommend either of the two "dump" hoses on my CAT exhaust system. I chose the starboard hose because it was longer on its horizontal run, and because this would allow the hose to curve more gently around as it worked its way down toward the shaft seal.

    Here is the hose, freshly cut:



    I removed a portion of hose roughly equal to the width of the exposed fitting, then installed it using the supplied clamps:



    Next, the shaft seal hose was installed. Here's a "front" view:



    ...and here's a "top" view showing how the hose gently curves down toward the shaft seal:



    Unfortunately, there was no way to get a camera down under the engine to show the hose connection to the shaft seal's carbon ring. I could barely get a view of it with one eye, and most of the work under there was done "blind" and one-handed. I'm really glad I had the shop tech install the seal. Here's what it looks like by itself:



    (The one that Tige uses at the factory looks exactly the same except that it doesn't have the nylon hose nipple. That "dry" version relies on water under the boat to keep the seal lubed and cooled. However, PSS specifically recommends the wet version for boats that go on plane or that can exceed 12 knots, because in these conditions a vacuum develops under the hull around the propshaft which creates an air pocket - thus starving the shaft seal for water. The correct solution is to plumb water to the seal so that no matter what is going on under the hull, the seal always has water.)

    Finally, I dewinterized the engine and started it up. When I looked under the hull, the water flowing from the shaft seal was clearly visible:



    ...and, surprisingly, cool to the touch even after the engine temp went over 100F. I felt the "dump" hoses where PCM recommends the water be taken and they were cool. The other exhaust cooling hoses were nice and warm, so I know water was flowing around properly.

    Hopefully this will be the end of the "shaft seal noise" that we experienced last year:

    Click here to listen

    Hope this helps someone... thanks!
    Last edited by IDBoating; 05-10-2012, 03:32 AM.

    #2
    Holy chit! That was the noise? Yikes! Had I known that I would have never suggested harmonics. Glad you got it figured out.
    You'll get your chance, smart guy.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by WABoating View Post
      As noted elsewhere, last Fall I upgraded to the "wet" style of PSS Shaft Seal during my warranty transmission swap. It was late in the season so we didn't put the boat back in the water - I just winterized it and tucked it away. This meant the wet shaft seal plumbing had to be installed this Spring, before the boat could be launched.

      Reviewing briefly: I ordered PCM's official kit for this purpose (their part number RK024228, "Shaft Seal Suppply Kit", note the extra "p") figuring it would be a good idea to do it the way the factory does. When the kit arrived, however, it was immediately obvious that it wouldn't work. I never did get an explanation from PCM (though they were polite about it). Finally, I discovered that PSS - the makers of the shaft seals - have their own kits available for this purpose. "We got tired of all the phone calls." I ordered that kit yesterday and it arrived today.

      Here are the contents of the PSS kit:



      The kit is complete, even including the hose. They use 3/8ths fuel tank vapor hose, which is a good balance of toughness and flexibility. Flexibility is important because the hose must not put any side load on the carbon ring of the shaft seal - doing so could force it out of alignment.

      They also supply a VERY stout fitting, comprised of (for my engine) a one inch brass fitting with a threaded side port into which is screwed a 3/8ths brass hose nipple. Appropriately sized hose clamps complete the package.

      Here is a closeup of the PSS fitting along with the pieces in the PCM kit:



      At top is the PSS fitting. The lower two parts are the sum total of what was in the plastic bagged PCM kit. Yes, there's a 3/8ths hose nipple. There's also a nice one inch hose coupler. What's missing is any way to connect them together! The coupler does not have a threaded hole on its side like you'd expect. It's simply impossible to use this kit to take water off of an existing hose. Weird, eh?

      On to the installation. First step is to cut a hose into which the fitting will be installed. The PCM engine manual, and their telephone support staff, specifically recommend either of the two "dump" hoses on my CAT exhaust system. I chose the starboard hose because it was longer on its horizontal run, and because this would allow the hose to curve more gently around as it worked its way down toward the shaft seal.

      Here is the hose, freshly cut:



      I removed a portion of hose roughly equal to the width of the exposed fitting, then installed it using the supplied clamps:



      Next, the shaft seal hose was installed. Here's a "front" view:



      ...and here's a "top" view showing how the hose gently curves down toward the shaft seal:



      Unfortunately, there was no way to get a camera down under the engine to show the hose connection to the shaft seal's carbon ring. I could barely get a view of it with one eye, and most of the work under there was done "blind" and one-handed. I'm really glad I had the shop tech install the seal. Here's what it looks like by itself:



      (The one that Tige uses at the factory looks exactly the same except that it doesn't have the nylon hose nipple. That "dry" version relies on water under the boat to keep the seal lubed and cooled. However, PSS specifically recommends the wet version for boats that go on plane or that can exceed 12 knots, because in these conditions a vacuum develops under the hull around the propshaft which creates an air pocket - thus starving the shaft seal for water. The correct solution is to plumb water to the seal so that no matter what is going on under the hull, the seal always has water.)

      Finally, I dewinterized the engine and started it up. When I looked under the hull, the water flowing from the shaft seal was clearly visible:



      ...and, surprisingly, cool to the touch even after the engine temp went over 100F. I felt the "dump" hoses where PCM recommends the water be taken and they were cool. The other exhaust cooling hoses were nice and warm, so I know water was flowing around properly.

      Hopefully this will be the end of the "shaft seal noise" that we experienced last year:

      Click here to listen

      Hope this helps someone... thanks!
      YES, it helps NOBODY. Exceptional knowledge share. Thank you. Thank you and oh yea....did I say Thank you?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by NICKYPOO View Post
        Holy chit! That was the noise? Yikes! Had I known that I would have never suggested harmonics. Glad you got it figured out.
        As mentioned in another thread, while diagnosing the transmission problems I was listening around with a mechanic's stethoscope. When that noise finally recurred, I went poking around and discovered that barely touching any part of the "dry" shaft seal assembly (carbon ring, rubber bellows) stopped it, and letting go caused it to start again. 100% repeatable.

        A little research into the shaft seal revealed that its manufacturer specifically warns this happens on boats like ours, which is why they make the "wet" version. Since they were pulling everything to replace the transmission anyway, I purchased the "wet" carbon ring (the only difference between the two styles) and had the tech install it when reassembling everything.

        During reassembly, he noticed that the stainless ring's face was scored and worn from running dry. So was the "dry" carbon ring (which he gave back to me). He turned the stainless ring around on the shaft so the two rings would be interfacing against fresh surfaces.

        It was a bizarre noise to be sure. But now all should be well.
        Last edited by IDBoating; 05-10-2012, 05:37 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Hope it fixes your problem. I will def remember this tweak if I ever have our shaft pulled.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Duncan View Post
            Hope it fixes your problem. I will def remember this tweak if I ever have our shaft pulled.
            x2

            Comment


              #7
              Great writeup as usual, WA. This is the sort of expertise I have come to expect from you guys.
              Be excellent to one another.

              Comment


                #8
                Quick update.... We've put 70+ hours on the boat this season so far and never once had that awful noise recur. The "wet" version of the shaft seal appears to have solved that problem perfectly.

                Even if you're not hearing the noise, I'd add "checking the face of the carbon seal" to your list of annual maintenance items. The seal manufacturer recommends the wet version for boats like ours, and I've just proven they know what they're talking about.

                Boat safe!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by WABoating View Post
                  Even if you're not hearing the noise, I'd add "checking the face of the carbon seal" to your list of annual maintenance items.
                  Can this be done without disassembling? If you have to disassemble, how much labor is involved?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You can pull the stainless ring back, compressing the bellows, to see the mating surfaces without disassembly.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Is it possible to change the packing without removing the v-drive and/ or the transmission ?
                      2009 RZ2, PCM 343, MLA Surf Ballast, Premium Sound.
                      2013 Toyota Sequoia 4WD W/Timbren SES

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ewok View Post
                        Is it possible to change the packing without removing the v-drive and/ or the transmission ?
                        Yes. You have to back off the propshaft because the parts fit around it, but you don't need to pull the v-drive or tranny.

                        Also, strictly speaking, there is no "packing" in this seal. There is a stainless ring that spins against a stationary carbon ring. The two machined surfaces are close enough in tolerance (and further self-machine once installed) that virtually no water seeps through. No more than an old-style packed thruhull, anyway.

                        If you were updating an existing "dry" version, technically you'd only have to back off the propshaft, replace the old carbon ring with the new one that has the hose fitting, put the propshaft back in place, and adjust the bellows pressure.

                        While you were at it, you would want to examine the operating face of the stainless ring (attached to the propshaft) to confirm no blemishes. Mine was scored up a lot due to running dry, and the tech smartly flipped it around so the new, unused surface was facing the new carbon ring. Thus you can have a brand new seal environment while only paying for the carbon ring.

                        PSS (the makers of the seal) sold me the updated "wet" carbon ring for $60, half their normal replacement price, because I was replacing a dry one. I wouldn't hesitate to ask for the same deal, for the same reason.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Update: Just before pulling the boat for winterization, I had my wife drive around at various speeds while I carefully watched the propshaft seal with a flashlight, looking for dripping. Result: Nothing. No drips, no spray, no water at all. Since we know there's a fair stream of water coming down the hose keeping the seal wet I thought there might be a drip now and then, but the thing is watertight. I couldn't be happier!

                          Comment

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