Help - New RZ2, RZ4

[tnvolgrad]

Well I have the boat fever itch and already to pull the trigger on a new 11/12 RZ. I love my 2008 RZ2 and have struggled with the benefits of upgrading, but would like a little more room. I have 3 girls, 2 dogs, generally 2-3 others, and do not like to be all cramped up. Thought about a Centurioun, but I did not like the 244 at all (seemed cheap/lacking creature comforts, and poor freeboard)

Primarily I surf., but frequently haul around wake boarders - with being said I would like to hear what kind of weight do you really need to achieve a descent surf wake in the RZ4? I currently have 2 - 1100 jumbos in the rear, 400 lb tube sac in the starboard side, and 400 lbs up in the front. Problem is all that weight takes a ton of time to fill up/drain and my wife doesn't like how much list it creates when surfing. What are the differences in the wakes for surfing and boarding between the two models?

While the space would be nice I want to ensure that the surfing is as good as the RZ2 - thanks for any feedback.

[ecutter]

Well I have the boat fever itch and already to pull the trigger on a new 11/12 RZ. I love my 2008 RZ2 and have struggled with the benefits of upgrading, but would like a little more room. I have 3 girls, 2 dogs, generally 2-3 others, and do not like to be all cramped up. Thought about a Centurioun, but I did not like the 244 at all (seemed cheap/lacking creature comforts, and poor freeboard)

Primarily I surf., but frequently haul around wake boarders - with being said I would like to hear what kind of weight do you really need to achieve a descent surf wake in the RZ4? I currently have 2 - 1100 jumbos in the rear, 400 lb tube sac in the starboard side, and 400 lbs up in the front. Problem is all that weight takes a ton of time to fill up/drain and my wife doesn't like how much list it creates when surfing. What are the differences in the wakes for surfing and boarding between the two models?

While the space would be nice I want to ensure that the surfing is as good as the RZ2 - thanks for any feedback.

Sounds like you need a Tige Z3.. If your stuck on the pickle fork you should check out Ragboy's RZ4 review on Wake9.COM / Check out the Z3 Video while your there. That's if you havent
already done this. Good luck.

[chpthril]

Ragboy can provide specifics on how is is currently weighting his RZ4, but then again, hes after a comp level wake.

The hulls havent changed, so to achieve the same wake you have now, you will need to weight with about the same, thus having the same list. The RZ4 is the same hull as the RZ2, just 2 ft longer. So it just takes a little bit more weight to achieve the same. I just think you can avoid the list without sacrificing wake. For the 24Ft Tige, the wake is nice in the 1300 Lb weight range in the rear surf side.

[b/w05]

X2 on the Z3, NICE boat. My wife really really wants one. Not in the cards right now. Tons of room, Joel says probably the best surf wake, not sure how long to fill?

[talltigeguy]

X2 on the Z3, NICE boat. My wife really really wants one. Not in the cards right now. Tons of room, Joel says probably the best surf wake, not sure how long to fill?

If fill time is an issue, that can be easily fixed. Contact CHPthrl and he can walk you through an additional pump installation.

[IDBoating]

I just think you can avoid the list without sacrificing wake. For the 24Ft Tige, the wake is nice in the 1300 Lb weight range in the rear surf side.

On our 24Ve, we have found that a few hundred pounds of ballast in the off-surf side is very advantageous. First of all, it lengthens out the wave without shortening or mellowing it. More to the point here, it also reduces the list. The result is a longer wave of the same height and steepness and push, with a more-level boat. A win all the way around.

For what it's worth, we have not had good luck with Ragboy's recommendation of some ballast in the bow. Maybe we're getting similar results with our off-surf side ballast, I don't know. But when we add ballast up front the wave starts to shrink and wash out. We run our bow totally dry and empty when surfing.

Obviously YMMV, different boats, different swim platforms, etc.

Hope this helps!

[ragboy]

On the 24Ve, I have only found weight in the bow to work when you weight that boat HARD in the corner. Other than that weight in the bow of the 24Ve will neuter the wake. That boat needs a ton of weight in the corner before weight in the bow helps, and the wake we make, which is abso-frickin-lutely amazing, requires about a 20 degree list. You will be questioned by folks and rangers if not out doing this on a lonely weekday.

The RZ2 is very easy to weight and makes a beautiful competition wake, with a great transition but a bit steeper face compared to the 24Ve. The one drawback of the RZ2 is that it requires all or almost all of the weight to the surf side. When you put weight on the opposite side the wake will start to wash out. It likes a lot of list, but not as nuts as the RZ4.

The RZ4 is very different than both above, which is so weird with such similar boats. My favorite part of the RZ4 is that it likes weight on both sides. This allows you to allow people to sit all over, and not list over so much which is nice. The wake on the RZ4 is a bit harder to find, and also touchier. The RZ2 wake is I guess a bit more stable, if that makes sense. The RZ4 wake, once found, was great, and we were able to get a great wake at at least 2 setups, keep in mind this RZ4 has the pro setup.

1. Full front, surf side under tank full, 500 lbs of lead on bottom of locker, then fill up surf side rear. The top built in sac would not fill up all the way with the lead there, but most of it. 400 lb sac under seat on surf side. 2 large people on surf side (me and 250-300 lb guy), then smaller people and wife on other side. We may have filled a bit in opposite side to get list to around 9 degrees, which bought the lip to the top of the wake and made that nice clean face, lots of push and plenty of length. I will post some pictures later today.

2. Almost same setup, except we didn't use lead. We stuffed a jumbo 1100 bag on surf side on top of filled under tank. Same 400 lb sac under seat. The 1100 bag doesn't fill all the way, maybe 700-800 gets in it, not sure. Only filled surf side front, and people all over. Biggest people, like me and dennis, or me and frank in surf corner. List was about 12 deg and it worked great.

Note that we measured list with a clinometer at rest. So that measurement was taken when the wake was good, but when we were stopped and settled. We originally had front full in setup 2, but it neutered the wake, so we just went to one side.

Pictures below, but another thing to note is the difference in transition on these boats. When we spoke to Tige about the Z3 and went to Texas we spent a lot of time talking about the transition of the wake, and how important it is, which doesn't always come out so hot in a picture. The transition is the part of the wake where the flats transition into the wake and if its not smooth, too abrupt, it will catch your board, and you will pearl a lot for instance. The first Z3 had a problem here, where the new one was great. Shorter, narrower boats, like the RZR have a tougher transition, for instance. The 24Ve is amazing in this area. The RZ2 is great, the RZ4 is very good but not as good as the RZ2. If you surf all 3 in a short time period you will see it. As an observer I can see it real well watching the rider go up and down the wake, and its especially noticeable closer to the boat. Bigger riders and beginners will get stuck in it more if it isn't smooth because they usually ride closer to the boat.

[IDBoating]

Ragboy, which wave is from which boat? You're discussing a lot of different boats here and I'm not sure which wave goes with which hull.

I agree the transition on the 24Ve is very smooth. Here's a shot from our sun platform (so several feet above and forward of your camera position, sorry) and you can see that the water surface just curves gently up into the curl. We've had beginners surf everywhere on that transition without pearling or catching edges - including one guy who slowly rode right up to the swim platform and just stepped off the board onto the boat. Nothing but a smooth transition area would permit such a thing.

[ragboy]

Those are all the RZ4 with setup number 2, sorry about that.

[IDBoating]

Those are all the RZ4 with setup number 2, sorry about that.

OK, thanks for the clarification. No one does more wake research than you do, so we pay close attention to your details!

[tnvolgrad]

Thanks Ragboy - you write ups and perspective are very helpful and informative. I also enjoy watching you and the family.

I think I have talked myself out of a RZ4 and will either look at another RZ2 or Z3. I am little skeptical of the Z3 despite all the hype - yet to be proven. I know you have one on order and everyone is raving about the boat, but to drop $80K+ sight unseen is difficult to swallow. I do love how the boat sits from a driver perspective though.

As I mentioned on of my major gripes, rather from my wife is the amount of list that is needed in the RZ2. The wake is great (modified set up with an automated 1100 in the rear, 380 lb tube sac, and 400 lbs upfront). The intriguing piece of data on the Z3 is the amount of list for surfing is reported at 7-9 degrees (can't remember exeactly what I was told) to achieve a descent wake. With that being said, I would imagine that is stock surf from Tige and something that most of us would upgrade with a bag from Chpthrill at some point in time. Once you load that configuration I wonder if you still have the same kind of list?

Nonetheless I appreciate the feedback and I look forward to seeing your Z3.

[ragboy]

Howdy....

Yes, the amount of list is like the amount of freeboard in a boat. You feel safer if you have more freeboard, and less list. The Z3 has like 5 inches more freeboard than the 24ve, and you REALLY notice that. I have never felt so secure. The lack of walkthrough down the side also very much gives you an even greater sense of security, especially if you surf goofy.

There def is a lot more hype, Tige's marketing dept is def pushing that boat hard, but I can tell you that we would not have put out the video we did if we didn't completely believe what we said. Keep in mind, that we declined to "endorse" (so to speak) the Z3 on 2 previous occasions until we rode on that final version. It really did make that wake with only like 8 degrees of list. We tested it at basically stock, and then a bit more, and haven't really tested it more heavily weighted. We should be getting our Z3 in early March and will be doing video with several riders right away and get the information out.

For the time being, we spent so much time talking and stuff on the Z3 video, that we didn't show as much of just the wake surfing. Keep in mind that RJ was freezing, and it was windy, but he was having a blast. We made this quick video for the Lynnwood Motoplex Tige dealer in Seattle, WA. Its just designed to be a longer video of nothing but raw surfing. Take a look, 4 boats in here, I think the Z3 is last, with several minutes of surfing.

http://vimeo.com/35314009

Its a lot of money, but you are only about 8 hours away, come down and get a great ride, no salesman here! Come try the RZ4 very soon, then come back and try the Z3. Plus we have a garage full of great boards to try. Where is your nearest Tige dealer? just curious.

[jbort]

tnvolgrad:

Have u done lots of surfing w the RZ2? I relate to the "wife discomfort" thing about boat list too but we got over it after awhile and now she's super big fan of wakesurfing. Can share more if ya want to know how I did that but don't want to belabor here. How old are the kids?

[ragboy]

Even with all the wakesurfing we do, my wife has never gotten used to it, pretty funny. She still sometimes asks if we are going to tip over. And when we do the 24Ve, she can't get comfortable. The RZ4 has been the best for her so far as far as that goes, she hasn't been in the new Z3, just the first prototype.

[jbort]

thats kinda amazing w all the time on water but good for her for gettin out there.