I Apologize in Advance

[ragboy]

This is consistent with our RZ2. One reason I dislike really big crowds of people on the boat is there is not enough room on surf side, which increases off side weight leading to froth.

This is the same reason I took out the U bow sack and replaced it with a separate sack on each side of the bow -- cuts down on froth. (Also why it perplexes me why the "Pro" stock ballast has separate side-specific sacks but the "Surf" stock ballast has one U sack.)

I think the Surf and Pro designations are just the names they chose. But 400lbs up front is good, even in one sack, just not AS good. You can compensate bow weight on both sides by making sure there is little to no weight on opposite side in rear, but no doubt PRO ballast is more flexible and what I always tell people to get. Also, if conditions allow, 800 lbs up front on the RZ2 can make a really long fun wave. Just be careful, do that when its flat. IMHO.

We don't have the rubrail underwater at speed. We stop filling our fat sac when the rail hits the water at rest. You must be ballasting more than we do. (Hmmm... that suggests we can increase our wave even more! Waahoo, more testing! I'm going to need a wide angle lens! )

I agree, one person moving around affects wave shape and cleanliness. In fact, that's how we experiment - moving people is faster than filling and emptying fat sacs. Then we ballast to lock in the weight distribution we like.

There is a sweet spot on our Ve. You get the rub rail in too much at speed and it makes a dent in the wake, it sometimes looks like a double lip, but it is not. Its a dent, RJ calls it a disturbance, from the rub rail. If rub rail is too deep, then this disturbance is felt by the rider. I don't think it causes a problem, more of a distraction. Here is the cool thing about that disturbance though...

You get the rub rail just right, about 2 inches under water or so and the disturbance follows a clean line up the wake and then destroys the curl. That is a good thing. When I was first doing this stuff, I thought the curl was so cool. But we found out quickly why it wasn't so cool as RJ progressed. When you fall back after a trick that curl reduces the length of your usable wake. The curl grabs your shin and pulls you back and its hard to pump out of it. Also, when you want to get lots of speed for a big air, or whatever, you go as far back as you can and then pump forward. The curl reduces how far back you can go. I couldn't find a good pic of the curl on our 24Ve, because we don't like it there. So I am going to use one of yours, but don't take this as a critique of your wake, not meant that way.



Now here are 2 pictures of our wake, close to 12mph and the rail right in that position where it destroys the curl. Its very cool, makes you want to keep the rail as it is, because its performing a valuable service.





On the bottom picture, you can really see that disturbance from the rail, how it goes up and destroys the curl. You really see it when the wave is forming, how it does it.

[duffymahoney]

So what was your bow weight for this? How many people on board?

[ragboy]

Its been the same we have been running, but this weekend we were running the sacs in the corner plus 400ish horseshoe in the front, Sacs in corner are about 1500, on goofy, more like 1400 but the driver about equalizes it. The driver is almost always RJ at 150 or Maddie when RJ runs, at 95 lbs dripping wet. ;-)

Then we had frank and I doing ballast duty with me in the corner at 400 and frank at 300. You can't see it, but there was also a 400 lb sac on the floor at our feet. We rolled it from side to side when switching. Then a few various skinny people in the boat at times.

so
1500
700 (frank and i)
400 up front
350 on floor
Right about 3000 lbs.

Here is a pic, you can't see the sac at our feet, or the hidden ones, but all else. It varied, except for that me and frank and driver were always there. We would move the extra or put on pontoon as needed to keep the wake clean.

[chpthril]

This is consistent with our RZ2. One reason I dislike really big crowds of people on the boat is there is not enough room on surf side, which increases off side weight leading to froth.

This is the same reason I took out the U bow sack and replaced it with a separate sack on each side of the bow -- cuts down on froth. (Also why it perplexes me why the "Pro" stock ballast has separate side-specific sacks but the "Surf" stock ballast has one U sack.)

It would be the same ballast setup. I guess they could just drop the surf option and just offer the base and pro Not sure what the retail price diff is between the two though.

[MooseX]

ragboy that's crazy ballast damn.

and just for the record I need to split my bow sacs too. It doesn't do so well with both Nautique sacs filled...one 250 on the surf side works though (or a 200 pound person)

[ragboy]

Yes, it is. The 24s need a lot of weight. Which is why I still recommend the 22s for people when they want a wakesurf boat for family. This is a competition setup and we are going to put this boat on a trailer and tour around for demos and small contests next summer. For about a month.

[MooseX]

I could never run that much in my 24 'cause of the altitude. I run 1500 in the rear (probably really only 14 packed)..300 on the swimstep..150 on the seat..one person next to the 150 brick plus driver..rarely do we put anyone/weight up front. The only time is when I surf on my really bouyant 6'0" fish. I can stay with just about any wave with that little beast.Bow sacs never really get any duty.

I figure I'm losing at least 40 hp/torque up at 6250 elevation. therefore I can't drag nearly as much weight. I never tried a valley lake or lower cause once I do that the boat/ballast has to be drained/bleached by lake patrol. 70 bux each time they do it. We got some mussel scandal goin on and every boat that goes in gets the once over

I envy guys like you and Duffy who run massive ballast.

I guess I could supercharge my motor..there's a Supercharged Centurion Enzo 24 that's running around..it supposedly has big power. Of course that's big money

[ragboy]

I am going to take the Ve up to tahoe with a couple of extra props, see what happens, let you know.

[IDBoating]

I am going to take the Ve up to tahoe with a couple of extra props, see what happens, let you know.

Any chance you can get a reverse rotation prop too, and see if that affects your wakes? It would be a bit weird with the throttle working backwards but I believe the transmissions are symmetrical.

[ragboy]

I don't really see a need, my wakes are virtually the same on both sides. Unless it cleaned up the wake, we are going to do a test with 3 props, and different altitudes soon. See how various props affect wake.

[duffymahoney]

I can't wait to try a 5 blade prop. 500 rpm less and more power!!! I don't see a downside. Strange that you guys don't use bow weight. I am running a ton of it! I have U sac filled (guessing 450), 250 under the bow filler cushion and 200 in lead. But I run 1800+ in the corner, 250 swim deck, 200 lead on the floor.

[ragboy]

we are using bow weight, I think we get 400-500 in that sac, and sometimes a human in addition.

Which 5 blade prop do you mean? I am doing a test with acme/wakemakers maybe we will include that prop in the testing.

[Timmy!]

That new OJ 5 Blade is supposed to work pretty good!

[ragboy]

Which? And does acme make one?

[Timmy!]

It's called the TZ X5:
http://www.ojprops.com/new/products

Wakeworld thread on it:
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788869