I Apologize in Advance

[Timmy!]

@WA: Are you sure those bubbles are from the chines? It seems to me that when the boat is tipped over that any interference from the chines would be directed up under the platform and with the wave. As an example, the old RZ2 platform had that edge that cut into the wave and it showed up on the top of the wave and the edge would be quite higher than the chines in question. I would think that with the lower placement of the chines that it would be washed out with the wave and not on the side.

[IDBoating]

@WA: Are you sure those bubbles are from the chines?

As sure as I can be, considering that area of the hull is DEEP underwater when ballasted. I looked at it while surfing too, and if you mentally extend that line back toward the transom it appears like it would originate right at the chine. Obviously, though, I cannot be 100% certain.

What I can say is that this line of bubbles is the only "disturbance" I see coming off the back of the boat. I don't see anything else to clean up on the wave that might be improved by cutting away the chine, as some are discussing on this thread.

[duffymahoney]

When you do a slight opposite turn while surfing you can see what the chines do. It creates the weirdest lip in the wave. I don't know if I have the balls to do this but my local fiberglass guy said less then 1k for both and he would do about a foot down the boat.

[Timmy!]

Pretty big gamble for not a lot of gain. Chase's airs in ragboy's other thread kind of prove that there is plenty of wave there to do whatever you want

[IDBoating]

Pretty big gamble for not a lot of gain.

x10000!

[duffymahoney]

Chase surfs amazing on most waves. I like to tinker and modify it's kind of my hobby. I doubt I will actually do this.

[ragboy]

Chase surfs amazing on most waves. I like to tinker and modify it's kind of my hobby. I doubt I will actually do this.

He does for sure. You can usually tell if likes the wave by the amount of air he gets. He loved the Wheelhouse wave, for instance, and that is about the most I have seen. He def liked the lip on this wake and was enjoying himself. There is so much preference packed into this issue, but the pictures and video from our outing this weekend will at least prove the 24Ve can hold its own with any other wakesurf boat. RZ2 also. Doesn't mean every person will think its the best, but its a world class wake IMHO, and the SAME on both sides with the SAME exact setup. We definitely vetted that out today.

[Duncan]

SAME on both sides with the SAME exact setup.

well ... close at least To my (untrained) eye, from those overhead perspective shots, the dark side wave looks even more amazing.

[IDBoating]

the SAME on both sides with the SAME exact setup.

Speaking for our ultra-ballasted 24Ve, we can generate a very similar wave on both sides but getting there requires different values of ballast and TAPS settings. The best wave (so far!) on the normal side is achieved around we call "10.8.4" (by which I mean 10.8 MPH and TAPS of 4) with several hundred pounds of offside ballast. Conversely, to get that wave on the goofy side requires 10.8.2 and zero (or nearly zero) offside ballast. Matching the normal side's settings on the goofy side yields a noticeably smaller, trashier wave. I believe this is caused by the direction of prop rotation, as you cannot make that symmetrical.

As you may have seen in my ongoing writeup, we were very careful to do everything as symmetrical as possible in our ballast system. The biggest thing that's not the same side-to-side is prop rotation. (I wonder how weird it would be to install a reversed prop to experiment with this effect. Pull the throttle lever backward to go forward, etc. Then you'd only have the crankshaft mass and propshaft itself still turning the same way.)

We have not yet played with bow ballast and its effect on our waves, as you have suggested elsewhere. Perhaps that makes things more symmetrical in back and obviates the effect of prop direction.

Just more data to stir into the mix....

[duffymahoney]

I run at 12.5-13.0 Taps at 2.5 on both sides. Wave is different but both are big clean and long. Trying to figure out more bow weight as we speak. I am almost sure I am going to do under deck sac forward of the gas tank. Should be a fun spring project.

[ragboy]

well ... close at least To my (untrained) eye, from those overhead perspective shots, the dark side wave looks even more amazing.

Its never EXACTLY the same, because you can never weight the boat exactly the same. But if you sit in that back corner all day for 2 days switching sides at least 4 times, I don't how much more the SAME would be possible. What I mean is, one of the things that makes it the same for me, on a lot of other boats, on one side you go this speed, on one side taps is here, on another its here, etc. The wake reacts exactly the same to taps and speed on both sides. If on one side you start to get froth on the wake when taps are at 6 or so, the other is the same.

Basically, on this and our RZ2, they don't like much or ANY weight on the opposite side. If you do, you get a frothy mess. Anyway, the differences are negligeable.

[IDBoating]

Basically, on this and our RZ2, they don't like much or ANY weight on the opposite side. If you do, you get a frothy mess.

That's what we expected too, and at first we didn't ballast the offside at all. But then that semi-pro surfed our wave, and he said "Try putting some weight on the offside." I argued the above point. He just smiled and said "Try putting some weight on the offside." So we did - and amazing things happened. The wave didn't get less tall, and it stayed just as glassy smooth, but it started getting longer and longer and longer. Probably gained at least 50% surfable length before the curl's froth. This guy was able to recover and get back into the pocket from 15-20 feet back. Adding weight to the offside made a HUGE difference, but I never would have tried it if he hadn't insisted.

This applies only to the port side, though. That's why I said things aren't symmetrical. We mirror-imaged this setup on the starboard (goofy) side and it was a frothy mess. Removing all of the offside ballast cleaned it right up. Weird.

[ragboy]

It depends on your setup, but where we are, with the rub rail 2-3 inches under water at speed, you move 1 150 lb guy to other side and you can usually get the froth going. Tons of video just this weekend of that happening. Our boats must not be setup the same.

[Duncan]

It depends on your setup, but where we are, with the rub rail 2-3 inches under water at speed, you move 1 150 lb guy to other side and you can usually get the froth going. Tons of video just this weekend of that happening.

This is consistent with our RZ2. One reason I dislike really big crowds of people on the boat is there is not enough room on surf side, which increases off side weight leading to froth.

This is the same reason I took out the U bow sack and replaced it with a separate sack on each side of the bow -- cuts down on froth. (Also why it perplexes me why the "Pro" stock ballast has separate side-specific sacks but the "Surf" stock ballast has one U sack.)

[IDBoating]

It depends on your setup, but where we are, with the rub rail 2-3 inches under water at speed, you move 1 150 lb guy to other side and you can usually get the froth going. Our boats must not be setup the same.

We don't have the rubrail underwater at speed. We stop filling our fat sac when the rail hits the water at rest. You must be ballasting more than we do. (Hmmm... that suggests we can increase our wave even more! Waahoo, more testing! I'm going to need a wide angle lens! )

I agree, one person moving around affects wave shape and cleanliness. In fact, that's how we experiment - moving people is faster than filling and emptying fat sacs. Then we ballast to lock in the weight distribution we like.