Reverse RZ2?

[duffymahoney]

I never thought my avalanche wave was short in length. How much bow weight are you running? My goofy wave on my 24v is better then my avalanche. But not by much.

[Duncan]

The "Pro" ballast option is referring to the wakeboard wake, not the wakesurfing wake.

In my opinion, the "pro" ballast would be better for surfing than the "surf" ballast. The rear system is the same between the two. The bow on the "pro" has 2x400# sacs, one per side, while the "surf" has one 400# u-shape sac.

In the off season, we replumbed our RZ2 to have 2x400# sacs, one per side. For us, they probably only fill 300# each. Nonetheless, keeping most (or all) bow weight on the surf side gives us the benefit of a lengthened pocket without substantially knocking down wave height as would occur with bow weight on the off-surf side.

Bringing this to the current ballast configurations, I would much rather have the "pro" setup in a new boat for surfing. If wanted 400# evenly distributed you could do that. You could also do 400# on just surf side and/or add some weight on non-surf to further tweak pocket/height.

Edit: link to Tige ballast options

[chpthril]

Get the RZ2, swap out the stock rear bags for custom 1000#, and you are good to go for an amazing wake with nice shape, long pocket, and TAPS/speed shaping potential. We surf ours every weekend and I will put it against any "near stock" boat out there.

Or get the RZ4 and be preared to do significantly more ballast work. Bigger boat, needs more weight.

Straight forward decision making process. It is unfair to look at Wake9 or Duffy's vids and expect those waves out of a near stock configuration. Those 24s are heavily modified; hence the world class waves.

It's just as easy a modification for the rz4 with pro and surf ballast as it is for the rz2.

We have plug-n-play custom sacs for the 24 foot tiges that hold roughly 1400 lbs for the port side and 1300 lbs for the starboard side.

For those wanting faster fill time, we can add additional ports for fill and drain pumps. For those with no factory ballast, or the base level, the Fly High Enzo can be used. Same amount of weight, but would require its own plumbing.

[duffymahoney]

What is your end goal? Best goofy wave possible? Any boat can get a reverse v-drive for it. I have learned through the years that the goofy wave just takes more weight to get = as good. I would say best goofy wave would either be a reverse enzo 240, ski nautique 230, Malibu 247 or a Tige 24v. All are gonna need a lot of work and weight to be epic. Best turn key would most likely be a reverse enzo 240 with custom sacs. Most of the plumbing and pumps are already there. Just a simple swap. I don't think a stock Rz2 compares. If you want to surf both sides then stay away from an enzo. If that is the case go with one of the other options.

[ragboy]

It's just as easy a modification for the rz4 with pro and surf ballast as it is for the rz2.

We have plug-n-play custom sacs for the 24 foot tiges that hold roughly 1400 lbs for the port side and 1300 lbs for the starboard side.

For those wanting faster fill time, we can add additional ports for fill and drain pumps. For those with no factory ballast, or the base level, the Fly High Enzo can be used. Same amount of weight, but would require its own plumbing.

1400 lbs FILLED? The numbers I have given on my 24Ve, are the actual weight in the bag in the boat. Are those numbers filled? Because the sacs in the RZ2 and the rz4 are the same, except for length. So that means you get NO extra weight in the corner of the RZ4 with that setup than you do in the RZ2, and that is EXACTLY where you need it in the RZ4, not up the side.

[chpthril]

1400 lbs FILLED? The numbers I have given on my 24Ve, are the actual weight in the bag in the boat. Are those numbers filled? Because the sacs in the RZ2 and the rz4 are the same, except for length. So that means you get NO extra weight in the corner of the RZ4 with that setup than you do in the RZ2, and that is EXACTLY where you need it in the RZ4, not up the side.

Yep, weighed them on the 'ol bathroom scale myself.

[Timmy!]

You bathroom scale goes to 1,400lbs!?!?!?!

[chpthril]

You bathroom scale goes to 1,400lbs!?!?!?!

Yeah, but the hard part is seeing the dial while holding the my sac up!

[ragboy]

Yep, weighed them on the 'ol bathroom scale myself.

That's cute and all, but this guy wants to make a decision between RZ2 and RZ4, its a big decision.

My point is that even if the RZ4 can have bigger sacs, the extra weight is up the side, not in the rear corner. The 24 needs a lot of weight in that rear corner.

As far as the wakes being the same, once we have dialed in the wakes, they have been extremely similar.

RZ2: Even the taps adjustments do exactly the same thing. You can go from 1-3 and then over 3 the wave starts to deform and get frothy, same on both sides. The only difference is that the goofy side seems to be more sensitive to weight on opposite side, it throws up more wash. On the regular side, its not so touchy.

24Ve: With our old setup, they were virtually identical, again, goofy was a BIT more touchy, but barely. With our new setup on goofy 12 mph is the speed we have been running with RJ. On regular, you need to go about .5 mph faster for the same wake.

Any of you are welcome to come up for a ride and see for yourself, many people have.

[91Terminator]

Makes me wonder how they could be called Pro ballasts if you can't really surf it?

You must understand that all manufactures must meet coast guard requirements and must watch over them selves for lawsuits. If Tige could put 8000 lbs of ballast they would.

We have already seen this as a problem with the recent MC lawsuit. There are going to be warning stickers for everything now.

[Ronan]

I never thought my avalanche wave was short in length. How much bow weight are you running? My goofy wave on my 24v is better then my avalanche. But not by much.

We run 900 in the back locker, 750 on the seat and play around with 450 in the front, all on the goofy side of course.

[Ronan]

What is your end goal? Best goofy wave possible? Any boat can get a reverse v-drive for it. I have learned through the years that the goofy wave just takes more weight to get = as good. I would say best goofy wave would either be a reverse enzo 240, ski nautique 230, Malibu 247 or a Tige 24v. All are gonna need a lot of work and weight to be epic. Best turn key would most likely be a reverse enzo 240 with custom sacs. Most of the plumbing and pumps are already there. Just a simple swap. I don't think a stock Rz2 compares. If you want to surf both sides then stay away from an enzo. If that is the case go with one of the other options.

Our goal is best goofy wake possible with an ok regular wake. All us guys are goofy and the wives are regular, hope they don't read this.....

We don't want sacs on seats, and I would gladly pay for what ever customization is required to have the fill and swap time that rag boy has on his 24ve.

We live 45 mins from the lake and don't leave the boat on the lake so it means a boat load of people and coolers for the day. Proud to say we have just today got all 5 of the kids up surfing today age 5 - 11 (great vid on teaching kids Ragboy, helped a lot) They love it. With 9 people, coolers and sacs the boat is way to cramped.

[chpthril]

It's just as easy a modification for the rz4 with pro and surf ballast as it is for the rz2.

We have plug-n-play custom sacs for the 24 foot tiges that hold roughly 1400 lbs for the port side and 1300 lbs for the starboard side.

For those wanting faster fill time, we can add additional ports for fill and drain pumps. For those with no factory ballast, or the base level, the Fly High Enzo can be used. Same amount of weight, but would require its own plumbing.

1400 lbs FILLED? The numbers I have given on my 24Ve, are the actual weight in the bag in the boat. Are those numbers filled? Because the sacs in the RZ2 and the rz4 are the same, except for length. So that means you get NO extra weight in the corner of the RZ4 with that setup than you do in the RZ2, and that is EXACTLY where you need it in the RZ4, not up the side.

Well, its close. Based on the reported numbers from you about your RZ2 sacs, factoring the difference in length, I feel my estimate for the port is close. On the starboard, it may be closer to 1200.

That's cute and all, but this guy wants to make a decision between RZ2 and RZ4, its a big decision.

My point is that even if the RZ4 can have bigger sacs, the extra weight is up the side, not in the rear corner. The 24 needs a lot of weight in that rear corner.

As far as the wakes being the same, once we have dialed in the wakes, they have been extremely similar.

RZ2: Even the taps adjustments do exactly the same thing. You can go from 1-3 and then over 3 the wave starts to deform and get frothy, same on both sides. The only difference is that the goofy side seems to be more sensitive to weight on opposite side, it throws up more wash. On the regular side, its not so touchy.

24Ve: With our old setup, they were virtually identical, again, goofy was a BIT more touchy, but barely. With our new setup on goofy 12 mph is the speed we have been running with RJ. On regular, you need to go about .5 mph faster for the same wake.

Any of you are welcome to come up for a ride and see for yourself, many people have.

Well, I can't make the water in the main section of the sac weight more then the water in the leg.....im good and and, but not a magician. Of all the people, you should understand that there is no way to do a custom plug-n-play sac that would hold the weight of the custom sacs in your 24Ve do, and place the bulk of that weight in the same spot of your 24Ve. The size of the storage, in its factory configuration, dictates the size of the sac and the amount of water it holds. That's my canvas, so that's what I have to work with. In the end, with your help, we designed a set of plug-n-play sacs that someone can order and in a matter of a few minutes, can easily swap out their 350# OEM sacs and go ride a greatly improved wake.

If someone wants the kind of wake that you have achieved with your heavily modified 24Ve, then they can either bring it to me, or design their own sac and I can have them made. The same manufacturer that made your 24Ve sacs, builds them for me. its just a matter of doing those one-off/custom designs that people occasionally ask for.

I apologise if anyone feels my numbers are misleading, they are not intended to be. If anything, I try to be on the conservative side until I have hard numbers. If I had a 24Ve or RZ4 to do the testing with, believe me, i would.

[duffymahoney]

My fill and drain is less then 5 minutes. Get a 24 foot boat. My boat feels so so much bigger then my avalanche. I think it even feels way bigger then a 240 enzo. It also super deep and you really feel safe. I regularly have 8-10 people on board and I have never had a cramped feeling like I used to get with my avalanche. If I were you (money wasn't an issue) I would get a malibu 247, biggest boat I have been in and best surf wave out. Go check one out. RZ4 is a big boat but doesn't feel nearly as deep as mine.

[ragboy]

@chpthril no, my only point is that your post made it sound like just throw those sacs in the RZ4 and it will be great. It will be good, IMHO, but as you progress, that power/push is so important. There is nothing worse then getting someone on your boat, and they are used to an enzo, or whatever, and they just keep falling out of the wake wondering what is going on. That is what it was like for us on the Ve before this setup.

@ronan if you have 9 people in the boat all day with stuff, you will definitely want the RZ4. I have a big family, 6 kids. We went to the RZ2 when we had one moved out, and then our boat in a slip, so we carry very little. The RZ2 is not comfortable enough for that group and day use gear. IMHO. The only way is you like always have 2-3 people in the bow, but I have found that groups like to be together, and most of the time people want to all be in the back, unless going for a nice ride or something.

The sacs chpthril has for the RZ4 will give you a good wake, but for competition or near competition, you will probably have to make some mods. The good news is that several of us are doing them now, so when you are ready, it will probably be very easy. ;-)

I missed the room our 24Ve had, its very nice having that living room back again, I must admit. Especially with how much we demo and a large family.

@duffy the room difference is pretty amazing, but I still would love to see your boat someday with all of that weight and NOT over the rub rail. That is very cool. Not sure where the difference is in the V vs the Ve that allows that. Very cool.