Changing oil viscosity as motor gets older?

[jsz]

My Expedition calls for 5w20 oil. With 80k miles the store clerk recommended I go up to 5w30 or 10w30. He said the "recommended" viscosity is for when motors are new and with wear we should eventually go to thicker oils to balance out wearing parts. It made sense but I have just never heard it before. Any of you?

I usually don't fall for advertising but this got me thinking. There are oils specifically for high mile motors. Does this mean they are just a little thicker? I'm guessing 10w30 means 10w30 and not (for example) 12w32. I was surprised he tried to push a higher viscosity instead of a high mile oil.

Also, Valvoline has a "Which oil is right for you test" online. For any vehicle that tows it recommends their Dura blend line claiming "added protection against severe driving." I wanted to get it for my boat since towing (severe driving) is all I do with it.

I know we have a few oil threads going on here but I thought this was a little different. Any thoughts?

[dom w. forte]

I dont reccomending useing any thicker oil with the age of the engine, stick with manufacturer stats, thicker oil can cause more wear due to a slower flow from oil pump, also all our testing and confirmed by craine cams, we dont reccomend synthetic oil for limited run engines, example hi performance cars used as weekend cruisers , and I include boats in that equation, we use synthetic blends.
I did a test with a camshaft, coated it with synthetic , let it sit for a week and there was no appearence of oil on surface , after 2 weeks it was surface rusting, the other end I coated with a blend and it was still oily.

[boatwakes]

For clarification, the first number in a multi-grade oil is the cold flow number: i.e., a 5w-X flows as a 5weight oil at cold temps up to the recommended service temp range for your specific application (you'll find that info in the operators manual). The second number is the operating temp protection number. In your case, a 5w-20 oil will flow like a 5 weight at cold/start-up temps and then protect against temperature like a 20 weight oil. Do some research regarding synthetics vs. dino and conclude on your own what's best for your situation. There are obviously bad synthetic brands and bad dino brands (DO NOT USE PENNZOIL FOR ANYTHING!!! They have a high parafin content in their oils which leads to sludge and wax build up in the engine and filter. We just did another oil analysis for a customer who had changed his own oil with Pennzoil. We were changing the filters when sludge and clumps of goo started draining out in the disposal bucket. Report came back with a high parafin warning.)
Bottom line, everyone, including me, will give their two cents on what oil to use (Amsoil only) but it's up to you to decide what makes you comfortable and what suits your needs. Good luck!

[dom w. forte]

Amsoil and mobil one are the two we have the most camshaft failures with here in our area, could be our humidity.

[jsz]

I forgot to say that in 5,000 miles the Expedition oil level hasn't dropped a bit. If it was slowly loosing some oil, say 1/2 quart in 5000 miles, could using a heavier weight slow the leak?

[SPBFAN]

I forgot to say that in 5,000 miles the Expedition oil level hasn't dropped a bit. If it was slowly loosing some oil, say 1/2 quart in 5000 miles, could using a heavier weight slow the leak?

No, Dom W. is correct do not change viscosity. I will share with you a perfect example as to why. I will do my best to explain.

2008 Dodge Ram with the Hemi Engine. This truck has a fuel save mode that shuts down 4 cyl when going down the road. It was brought into the shop with a dead cylinder mis fire.Cylinder number 1 was where the problem was present. under the standard checks we found good spark, Good compression, and it passed a cyl leak down test.

Now for what we did. I used wave form analysis with lab scope and a vacumme transducer. What I found was once the engine started the pressure in cyl one would not drop of like other cyl and it would maintain a constant pressure not allowing for vacumme in this cyl to be present. Now this is weird completely out of the ordinary for the average engine misfire.

First thought was a collapsed lifter on the engine so we pull of the valve covers. I have the shop assistant crank the engine over everything is working fine but after cranking for 30 sec right before he quits the rocker arms quit moving. WHAT!!! THE !!!!

OK so research begins. I don't know if any of you old engine guys out their remember the old Eaton lifter system put in the older GM Cars. Well guess what EATON is back in the dodge Hemi with a newer system.

So the car has a P0300 misfire fail code in the system. So here is how this system works.

Their is a control valve under the intake for each cyl that controls oil flow to the lifter by way of the computer commanding this valve. When the system is shutting down the cyl it does not shut the cyl down by only cutting off fuel. It directs oil to the lifter, pushed over the lifter pin and locks the pin in a side position with oil that allows the lifter plunger to go up and down with full motion making it possible for the lifters to not open or close trapping exhaust in the cyl creating pressure that does not leave the cyl. This allows for a very smooth unnoticed transfer of power and removal of power for fuel save mode.

So I notice that the valve that controls oil flow is computer controlled and realize the valve is faulty after hooking up a scope and makeing sure the comand is present from the computer. So I replace the oil control valve put the engine back together and wow it runs great misfire gone, I thought.

So while it runs great for some reason over the next day the other shop owner drives the truck home. He finds that the check engine light comes one and it sets a P0300 cyl misfire again. I am now on the road and out of state for work so I have him park it so I can figure it out when I get home on the weekend. But the truck runs great.

Now what is going on??????? Now knowing the sensitivity of how the cyl are shut down my thought went to this very subject in this thread. OIL. I contact the customer and ask "did you have a recent oil change"? His answer YES. Where at and do you know what oil was used. YES Jiffy Lube and they told me I needed to upgrade my oil to the 10W30 because of mileage and the truck is supposed to run 0W20. I call ed the other shop owner and tell him to change the oil. He perform and oil change and put in what I use LUCAS 0W20 motor oil. Clear the fail code and drove it over night. Fail code was gone. Problem Fixed. After that I researched the control valve and found that the heavy weight oil plugged it up and caused it to fail.

NOW for the moral of all this story. MAKE SURE YOU RUN WHAT THE ENGINE MANUFACTURE SAY TO RUN NOT THE BOAT MANUFACTURES. If you run anything different and have an engine failure it will be the engine manufacture paying for the replacement and I know they will want a spectra analysis of the oil. If it is the wrong grade you are spending 6K+ for a new engine.

The PCM on my boat is 15W40 not 10W30 40 or 20W50 like a lot of the dealer tell me to use PCM say 15W40 and it is stamped on my oil cap. Not to mention it will or may cause you problems that you never thought it could cause depending on what type of valve train system, oil rings, Bearings, Cranks, Pistons and now electronic control system that are put on the engines.

My very long worth. I have started to sell the LUCAS Oils through my shop now because of this problem and they have the best oils for the best price to meet all these demands for todays engines. It is no longer one oil works on all system.

[jsz]

WOW! thanks for the detailed reply.

[SPBFAN]

WOW! thanks for the detailed reply.

No problem, I hope it helped you to understand the viscosity issues we face today with oil.

What part of CA do you live in?

[jsz]

OC... which part of the plane are you in? =)

[Dave S]

Just to add, I used to work at a Ford Dealer in my previous career. When the new triton engines came out, we were instructed to always run 5w-20 (I think it is 5w-20-whatever the manual says) and never any thicker, here is the reason- the newer design engines have smaller tolerances in the bearings, etc. and a thicker oil will not get in there and lubricate everything properly. So using a thicker oil will ultimately destroy the engine faster, and then it is considered customer neglect for not making sure the correct oil was placed in the engine if it was not done at a Ford Dealership-customer neglect means-when the engine blows-no warranty-no insurance pay-comes straight from the customers pocket @ about $3,0000 or more for a new engine - it may be best to use the correct oil weight. I have an 01 F-150 5.4l Triton, bought it with 33,000 miles now have 133,000 miles and still runs fine, I use Mobil 1 Clean 5000 oil and change it every 4,000. It uses about 1/2 qt for the first 3000 miles depending on hard use towing etc. I plan on running it at least 2 more years so we can see how the new 2011 diesels are holding up before I get my next truck.

[TRD]

Dom,

I just want to make sure I understand you. Are you saying to use a synthetic Blend? Right now I use 25-40w Quicksilver Mercruiser oil. I buy it from a marine shop here in town. It is NOT a synthetic oil at all. I have about 600hrs now on the engine. Should I continue w/ what I am using or what direction do I go?

Thanks
Dale

I dont reccomending useing any thicker oil with the age of the engine, stick with manufacturer stats, thicker oil can cause more wear due to a slower flow from oil pump, also all our testing and confirmed by craine cams, we dont reccomend synthetic oil for limited run engines, example hi performance cars used as weekend cruisers , and I include boats in that equation, we use synthetic blends.
I did a test with a camshaft, coated it with synthetic , let it sit for a week and there was no appearence of oil on surface , after 2 weeks it was surface rusting, the other end I coated with a blend and it was still oily.