First wakesurfing videos behind the 24Ve...

[IDBoating]

Several asked, so here are some videos of wakesurfing behind our new 24Ve.

Background: The blonde guy surfing in these videos is our 8YO son's wakeboard coach. As mentioned elsewhere here, he offered to tear out the fat sacs from his Dad's boat so we could experiment with the 24Ve. We ended up with about 900 pounds of ballast in the port rear locker and on the port rear seat corner, plus two adults and a driver. There was LOTS of room left in the port locker, plus under the port seat, for additional ballast.

Given this setup, the optimal wave was with TAPS set to 6 and a speed of about 9.6 MPH. We played with every variable and you could definitely see the wave changing as parameters were altered. Going from TAPS 1 to TAPS 6-8, for example, added about two feet of wave height all by itself.

(I apologize for the large size of these video files. I haven't had a chance to transcode/downsample them nor edit them for brevity.)

The first video is of our friend testing the wave as we experiment with TAPS and speed:

http://articles.richardhartman.net/w...ogantricks.mov


Next, he took our 8YO on the board with him:

http://articles.richardhartman.net/w...lhpairsurf.mov


Finally, our 8YO got up by himself. This is only the second time he's ever tried wakesurfing (he wakeboards most of the time):

http://articles.richardhartman.net/w...clh1stsurf.mov


Things look VERY promising. If we can get this level of wave with just 900 pounds and no ballast anywhere but in the rear, I think next summer is going to be seriously fun.

Thanks!

[ragboy]

Great stuff! Looks like you are having tons of fun, thats all that matters.

A Good custom sac in each rear locker, going up the side should give you about 1000lbs in each corner. That pretty much is the recipe for the 24Ve. Makes a nice solid wake. The 24Ve doesn't like weight in the front, it will just knock the wake down, all weight in the rear corner seems to be the best.

When you weight, if you see a double wake, double lip thing, just get that rub rail down a bit lower until you have a clean solid face.

[ragboy]

Couple quick tips. Towing from the tower, will really help beginners get up. Towing from the SIDE of the tower, helps even more, since it keeps them on the side, and they don't have to drop in.

Also, get yourself a good wakesurf rope, if you haven't already. This is my opinion, is the best.

http://www.waterskis.com/Accurate-Wa...ine_handle.htm

Ours is in its 4th season. The big handle can be dangerous when a wakesurfer "chokes up" on the rope to find the sweet spot, and the handle is dangling at their feet.

Looks like you are going to be creating some great family memories. Congrats.

[IDBoating]

Couple quick tips. Towing from the tower, will really help beginners get up. Towing from the SIDE of the tower, helps even more, since it keeps them on the side, and they don't have to drop in. Also, get yourself a good wakesurf rope, if you haven't already.

I totally agree. This was an unplanned event. We don't have boards, or ropes, or handles, or fat sacs, or anything. His family already pulled out their boat for the season and he just happened to be at their lake house cleaning up, so we drove by to chat. One thing led to another and he offered to pull the ballast out of his Dad's boat. He also grabbed his board.

We had to make do with whatever rope we could find. I didn't want to tie a tight knot in my Spectra wakeboarding rope, so we used an old ski rope instead. I agree the ski pylon is suboptimal, but that's just how it worked out that day.

My 8YO son is already gathering materials to make us a custom wakesurf rope and handle. I'm not sure how that will work out, but I can't argue with his enthusiasm!

[ragboy]

Very cool, sorry for the choppy responses, the server you have those videos on is a bit slow, so they finally were up to watch all the way through.

Your son has good balance, and should free ride quickly, but his foot position is hindering him. Watch this video, and he will be free riding in just a couple of tries.

[IDBoating]

A Good custom sac in each rear locker, going up the side should give you about 1000lbs in each corner. That pretty much is the recipe for the 24Ve. Makes a nice solid wake.

That's the general plan. However, you said you were going to experiment with super-weighting the 24Ve. I haven't forgotten, and I'm looking forward to your results! {grin}

The 24Ve doesn't like weight in the front, it will just knock the wake down, all weight in the rear corner seems to be the best.

Really? I'd swear I'd read here that the 24Ve benefits from some weight up front to lengthen out the wave a bit. Yes, you lose height but having the ballast up front lets you trade one for the other based on preference. That's what I thought I read, anyway.

When you weight, if you see a double wake, double lip thing, just get that rub rail down a bit lower until you have a clean solid face.

Can you be more specific? A "double wake double lip"?

Just how close to the waterline do you run the rubrail on the 24Ve? I had quite some distance left to go, so it seemed I could have added quite a bit more weight.

[IDBoating]

Your son has good balance, and should free ride quickly, but his foot position is hindering him. Watch this video, and he will be free riding in just a couple of tries.

I'll watch that with him, thanks!

I got up and went ropeless (for about 15 seconds, but hey!) the very first time I tried wakesurfing. His physical abilities mimic mine pretty closely so I suspect he'll "get it" quickly. I've watched a couple of your videos and they are very helpful and informative, so we'll watch this one and let him dream about it until next Spring.

Thanks again, and keep those suggestions coming!

[IDBoating]

Very cool, sorry for the choppy responses, the server you have those videos on is a bit slow, so they finally were up to watch all the way through.

The server's connection is fast (at least a DS3, might be an OC-12), but they are HUGE video files. Like I said, I didn't have the chance to transcode or edit them. It takes a while to download them because they are quite large. I need to see if Premiere Pro understand QuickTime's .MOV format - if so, I can improve things pretty fast and shrink those files to a fraction of their raw size.

[Ewok]

Nice video's, what is the water temp up there right now?

[ragboy]

The server's connection is fast (at least a DS3, might be an OC-12), but they are HUGE video files. Like I said, I didn't have the chance to transcode or edit them. It takes a while to download them because they are quite large. I need to see if Premiere Pro understand QuickTime's .MOV format - if so, I can improve things pretty fast and shrink those files to a fraction of their raw size.

Just upload them to youtube, that should do it. ;-)

[IDBoating]

Nice video's, what is the water temp up there right now?

On Saturday, air temp was 84F and water temp was 65F.

On Sunday, air temp dropped to 65F and water temp was 64F.

Thursday through Saturday were a sort of bonus summer weekend. Those were unusually warm temps for October. Worked out perfectly for testing the new 24Ve!

[ragboy]

That's the general plan. However, you said you were going to experiment with super-weighting the 24Ve. I haven't forgotten, and I'm looking forward to your results! {grin}




Really? I'd swear I'd read here that the 24Ve benefits from some weight up front to lengthen out the wave a bit. Yes, you lose height but having the ballast up front lets you trade one for the other based on preference. That's what I thought I read, anyway.



Can you be more specific? A "double wake double lip"?

Just how close to the waterline do you run the rubrail on the 24Ve? I had quite some distance left to go, so it seemed I could have added quite a bit more weight.

Ok, first the double lip thing. I can't find many pictures of my wake like that, but here is one.



Here is from a friends boat, you can see it more pronounced.





If you see that double wake/lip thing, just list the boat over more, until you don't see it. That will give you a clean solid face. More like this:

IMG_7250 by wake9, on Flickr

IMG_6849 _wm by wake9, on Flickr

The first picture, and the last 2, are both of my 24Ve. The last 2 are just custom sacs in rear, and people. No ballast up front.

Here is the thing, my experience. Putting weight up front of the 24Ve may make the wake longer, but it does 2 other things. It makes the wake smaller, and weaker.

First, I am no expert, but we have about 700 hours on our boats combined, 90% wakesurfing. And we spend a lot of time with pros, and very knowledgeable people. This weekend, we tried putting weight up front on the Ve, and more weight in the back, and it just wasn't working out. We need more time. But let me explain "weaker".

There are several characteristics of a good surf wake. Much of this is preference.

1. Long pocket
2. Good height
3. Solid face with well defined lip (if you are a skim boarder, as you progress, you may like a more "mushy" soft wave, even with the double lip. Some skimmers like that.
4. Push

Push is the elusive one, and your kids will probably never know the difference until they get to RJ's level. But you will. If you weight 200 lbs or more, or host people like that. Push is what keeps you from falling out of the back of the wake after a trick, or when you fall back a bit. Push makes a surf wake feel more "effortless", easier to stay in the pocket.

When you add weight to the front of the Ve, it loses push, and becomes weaker. At least, in my experience. The RZ2, needs weight up front. Here is my theory. The 24 foot boat, that 2 feet extra in the bow is putting a lot more weight up front, and so you don't need more. You need all the weight in the back. And I think you would probably need to go somewhere over 2000 lbs in the rear corner before you needed to add weight up front to balance it out. It seems, that weight in the back is what helps with push.

That being said, get about 1000 lbs or so in that corner, and you will have a great time, and you will not overweight your boat, it will be safe. The rubrail should be about kissing, but an inch or 2 above the water at speed, should be just fine. We usually went 11mph on our Ve.

Have fun!

[IDBoating]

Great data, RagBoy. Thank you very much!

I expect to go with custom sacs on the rear lockers. That should maximize the ballast capacity. Given the volume we saw consumed by ~900 pounds I don't think 1000 will even be difficult. We could have easily fit another 50% in there.

I need to study those double lip photos. I'm not seeing what you are. But after I finish typing this I'll study them a bit more.

[IDBoating]

Re: the double lip. Are you talking about the flat-looking area toward the centerline of the boat (the tall side of the wave)? If so, I thought that was just the separation line between the left and right wakes.

[ragboy]

In the first 3 pictures, there is a line horizontally down the middle of the wake. Below that line, the wake is more steep. Above that line, it flattens out. On the 24Ve, when you see that, list it over more. The more you list, the higher that line will be, and then it will disappear, giving you a solid wake face, which is perfect for launching airs and stuff on. Which eventually your eight yr old will LOVE to do.