Tundra Crewmax vs. 2500HD

[ajholt7]

[dom w. forte]

The Tundra did not cost more than the F150 to start with, so The MC - tige comparison is useless.

But if we were to use your logic the other direction, how many Tiges were sold in 2000? I would bet that there were far less TIges than MC's...so according to your logic, a 2000 TIge would cost a lot more than a 2000 MC nowadays. You really are rationalizing deeply to think that the number of vehicles explains current value of 10 year old trucks.

You make a good point about Ford's big truck experience, but my argument would be the exact opposite as you. Toyota makes a whole lot better car than Ford so that puts them in better position to build a light duty truck. (although I might not be able to make that argument with 2010 Ford cars, as they have come a long way). I would dare say that 90% of the people who we are talking to here tow their boat for less than 10% of the miles they put on a truck. They want a cadillac that can tow, like you said. They don't want a stripped down F650.

So how many of those top quality Toyota Supras that cost thousands more are still on the road as compared to the poor quality Mustangs?

[dom w. forte]

Wow! Lot of commotion out there. Ok........all bets on the table. Sign up if your in.

$10 bucks says the Dems take one more seat for 60.
$10 bucks says the Dems take 5 more seats in the house.

Cut and dry. If you in, just say "IN". I'll pay up with an address sent to my inbox

__________________________________________________ ___

What has this administration done for the average Joe?

1. Credit card reform. The credit cards had been using predatory practices for a decade.

2. Health care reform. Insurers have become hedge funds and investment bankers, choosing to cherry pick and insure only the healthy or large corporations. Screwing the average Joe, including joes kids and my neighbors 5 year old grandson who has leukemia.

3. Finance reform: Default swap credits are a thing of the past. Badly needed reform for our banking industry and wall street, and the first ever overhaul since the great depression.

4. 787 billion stimulus package to keep this country from falling into a great depression.

5. 30 billion loan package for small business, which directly affects the average Joe.

From here, there’s a whole bunch of other stuff that makes no difference for Joe....like tobacco regulations, Guantanamo, Iraq, etc.

__________________________________________________

I voted repubican all my life, except this year.

__________________________________________________

As for the chevy suburban....I have to admit, it sure is nice to drive.

More voted Dems last time esspecially when you count all the illegal votes, oopps!

[Nobody]

Well I didnt comment to start politics, and further more my comment didnt point a finger at any particular political party, my comment was directed at any govorment intervention into any bussiness , my bussiness your bussiness , all bussiness.
Now as pertaining to vehicles , ive been working on them for 52 years, almost every type, I base my comments like many others on personal exspirence, and with thousands of miles and vehicles I have worked on the americans still build the best. Now if you want to place a wager, go out and find any Toyota or Nissian built from 1980 to 1990, where over 500,000, per year were made and then go out and find any GM or Ford or Chrysler, 1980 to 1990, and let me know what you come up with, in our state, dodge darts, cutlass olds, buick regals, novas, monte carlos , crown vics, lincolns, grand marquies, etc, all looking like they have been through an off road event , but still in service. Now on the foreign side slim pickens.
In the 1990s nissian challeged trans am with a brand new state of the art performance motor, and was very sucessful for a few short years against outdated smallblock Chevys and Fords, however those obslete old designs gained more power and were again back at the front, a testomony to a good design.
No other brands of cars in the world have won as many races, in all forms of competition and durability including trucks than GM , Ford and Chrysler, and in the 1960s when Ford and Chevy dominated at Le Mans France they banned all 7.0l engines to get rid of the competition, but Ford continued with the 5.0l and won for four more years.
Well enough said , P.S its the congress that ran us into the ground, both parties , here we go again ha,ha,ha.

Dom, don't you think "52 years" is a bit of a stretch? I mean really, you can't be much older than your late 50's at most. I have an answer to your logic, why do you think GM, Ford and Chrysler is in the toilet and Toyota is number 1? People are sick and tired of having their cars continually fixed after 30K miles. Yes, GM, Ford and Chrysler make nicer looking stuff. My last Ford van went through 3 evaporators, 3 compressors, 3 transmissoins (04D), 1 rear axle, and 2 front end rebuilds (Ford E350 with 7.1D) on and on and on... What a total piece of JUNK! At 160K I quit. Sure I could have made it to 400,000 and be just like you, if I kept rebuilding everything over and over and over. No thank you, I have other interests in life besides fixing a 8 year old van/truck to show the world that I my Ford has mega miles. Umm? Oh yea, being on the water with our RZ4.

I drive Toyota and make one payment, a loan payment. I no longer make a repair payment, besides the average JOE nowadays can't afford a vehical payment and a repair payment every month. Solution? Honda, Toyota, Nissan. As for finding a 90's Toyota? Why does someone want a 20 year old car? Their made to put 250K miles with little to no grief (continual major repairs) then sent to the scrap yard. Why live in the past?

Right now I'm considering a Honda CR-Z. Why? Quality, Reliability, Resale value, etc. Would I consider a Ford hybid or GM hybrid. No way in HELL, maybe in my next life when Toyota owns Ford.

[dom w. forte]

Dom, don't you think "52 years" is a bit of a stretch? I mean really, you can't be much older than your late 50's at most. I have an answer to your logic, why do you think GM, Ford and Chrysler is in the toilet and Toyota is number 1? People are sick and tired of having their cars continually fixed after 30K miles. Yes, GM, Ford and Chrysler make nicer looking stuff. My last Ford van went through 3 evaporators, 3 compressors, 3 transmissoins (04D), 1 rear axle, and 2 front end rebuilds (Ford E350 with 7.1D) on and on and on... What a total piece of JUNK! At 160K I quit. Sure I could have made it to 400,000 and be just like you, if I kept rebuilding everything over and over and over. No thank you, I have other interests in life besides fixing a 8 year old van/truck to show the world that I my Ford has mega miles. Umm? Oh yea, being on the water with our RZ4
I drive Toyota and make one payment, a loan payment. I no longer make a repair payment, besides the average JOE nowadays can't afford a vehical payment and a repair payment every month. Solution? Honda, Toyota, Nissan. As for finding a 90's Toyota? Why does someone want a 20 year old car? Their made to put 250K miles with little to no grief (continual major repairs) then sent to the scrap yard. Why live in the past?

Right now I'm considering a Honda CR-Z. Why? Quality, Reliability, Resale value, etc. Would I consider a Ford hybid or GM hybrid. No way in HELL, maybe in my next life when Toyota owns Ford.

I invite you to come drive or tow anything you like with my 290,000 mile all original 1994 dodge van , no item has been overhauled on said vehicle, just normal oil changes since new with all documented history files since purchased new.
Also you can view my customer maintenace files and find that we have done as much work on on my foreign car customers cars as american but ussually at a higher cost of parts.
As pertaining to 52 years as a mechanic ,my father started our bussiness in 1956, here in St. Pete, ive worked on cars since I was seven years old, my dad had me do a valve job then on a 1951 chevy, my brother helped me lift the clynder head over the fender, by the way they were designed back then to be rebuilt as many times as you liked so that the average joe wouldnt have to buy new every few years, interesting concept wouldnt you say?

[RockRig]

Nobody:

Okay so American made vehicles are total junk and imports never break? I don't think that is true.

The American manufacturers "in the toilet"?

Here is the market share:

GM - 18.6%
Ford - 15.8%
Toyota - 14.9%
Chrysler - 10%
Honda - 10.9%
Nissan - 7.7%

So, not quite the toilet. I own 9 trucks and cars for my business, the trucks (four) are Ford, two Chevy Vans, one Kia, and two Ford sedans. Only one of them is sidelined due to being too expensive to operate, the Kia, but it has 175k on it and lived a hard life. I have not had problems with the Ford's durability. Mostly oil changes and such. The Chevy's have had a few problems, but not enough to sideline them.

Did you mean the Ford 7.3l diesel in your E350? If so, that was a good motor for hauling, I am surprised that you had so many problems with it.

Politically - I keep thinking that the "average Joe" phrase is starting to sound like "comrade". The best thing about America in the past is that we were all individuals and not lumped into a common class group to be "helped" by the government or anyone else for that matter. When the government knocks on your door and tells you that they are here to help, you may want to hold on to your wallet and your freedom.

[Ewok]

So how many of those top quality Toyota Supras that cost thousands more are still on the road as compared to the poor quality Mustangs?

I know a few guys with Supras, I know one guy in particular with two! I suspect they are more rare than mustangs because there were less of them built and the ones that made it here probably got wrecked at the drag stip. Not from blown up engines either, they were the most bullet proof engines I have ever heard of. So the reason you don't see many on the road is less built and the ones surviving are being pampered in garages since they will soon become serious collector cars. I got to drive one of my friends, he replaced the stock turbo, no mods to the internals, 650 rwhp! INSANE! I'm not making a political statement and I love Ford Mustangs too, I love all fast cars and all forms of racing, but you have to respect the Supra.

[91Terminator]

The Tundra did not cost more than the F150 to start with, so The MC - tige comparison is useless.

But if we were to use your logic the other direction, how many Tiges were sold in 2000? I would bet that there were far less TIges than MC's...so according to your logic, a 2000 TIge would cost a lot more than a 2000 MC nowadays. You really are rationalizing deeply to think that the number of vehicles explains current value of 10 year old trucks.

You make a good point about Ford's big truck experience, but my argument would be the exact opposite as you. Toyota makes a whole lot better car than Ford so that puts them in better position to build a light duty truck. (although I might not be able to make that argument with 2010 Ford cars, as they have come a long way). I would dare say that 90% of the people who we are talking to here tow their boat for less than 10% of the miles they put on a truck. They want a cadillac that can tow, like you said. They don't want a stripped down F650.

You can try to justify your purchase of a Tundra all you want, but you can not just over look the facts.

Why is the F150 #1 for 33 YEARS IN A ROW??? IN A ROW???

33 Years. That means that it was #1 since before the tundra was in the making.

Why are there 5 Ford Trucks in the Top 10 Vehicles sold in the World???

Where are your Supra's??? I have 2 Mustangs 1989 and 1991, My brother has a 1993 with 140,000 miles that took him to texas a few times looks like its never left the showroom. Steve works with us has a 1987 with over 150,000 miles on it looks like its never seen the light - its his daily driver. These are all Ford 5.0L's (Except for my 1991 03 Cobra COnversion - 4.6L DOHC T-56 6 Speed IRS with 50,000 on it and it will never break. There are cobra's out there piggy backing Twin Turbo Supercharged running well over 1,000HP on race gas that have stock bottom ends.

How many of those supra still have there original motors that were turboed, supercharged, head changed, Ported, Polished, Cam Changed, Nitrous shot? HUH? CUZ I cant tell you the number of 79-93 Ford 5.0L's that are running 400 to 700HP on original Bottom ends that i have seen.

Why is every Cop Car normally a Crown Vic??? You dont see those quality Camay's or Alitma's??? Im going to go out and guess thats because the Police need something they can rely on and that will last THAT IS QUALITY.

I dont really know what you mean by quality cuz if thats not it then.......

[Fiveflat]

Almost 1 Trillion dollar stimulus, in an attempt to practice Reganomics... The only problem is, Reganomics never intended to create more government jobs - it's meant for the private sector - you know - the sector that gets work done productively, efficiently, and creates long term career positions for people. Not gov't contract construction that lasts 1 year and then they're back on the street looking for a whole new gig...

Credit card and mortgage "Predatory Practices" ? I'm tired of that term. That bail out only taught the future of America (our kids) that it's okay to not take any responsibility in life. You spend beyond your means and it's okay? I'm in my most financial trouble now from "Predatory Government" and "Predatory Taxing"

[Fiveflat]

By the way, I looked a couple months back just for the heck of it and yea, the Tundra spec'd out like an F-150 was a couple thousand more than the Ford...

Ford isn't in the toilet. GM and Chrysler were, but not so much now that YOU and I bailed them out. Toyota did well through this recession because of one thing. They don't have "predatory union" (ie UAW) ruining their business.

[Ewok]

I'm not hating on Ford, like I said I love the Mustang. You can have your favorite but using the Supra to support a truck decision is a little out there.

All I'm saying is just what you said too, Supras are getting rare and owners are holding on to them. If I had one I would not have it out much in FL due to salt in the air, I would wash and pamper that baby like nobody's business. I have a good friend here who keeps 2 of them and uses one as his daily driver. They are very fast and respectable cars with a reputation for bullet proof engines. Thats probably why not many are left due to idiots who boosted them too much or didn't take care of them enough or who upgraded the motor but didn't know how to drive and wrecked them on the drag strip. I have seen plenty of guys with excellent Ford motors crash and burn on drag strips too.

To prove I'm not a Toyota fanboy, Toyota was the largest automaker racing in the worlds greatest racing series, Formula 1, and they SUCKED! They spent the most money of any manufacturer and they could not build a fast or reliable car. No one in the racing press could figure it out since they had very talented engineers and one of the highest budgets ever. They pulled out of Formula 1 and started focusing on NASCAR which is good since it will help build the brand in the US. I have read that Toyota is leading the charge to get rid of the carbs and get NASCAR on board with fuel injection, I can't wait. I just wish they would stop calling it "stock car" racing. There is nothing stock about those cars anymore, there is actually nothing that represents the production cars either other than stickers on the body.

For the record I am a Scuderia Ferrari fan thanks to my dad who took me to watch F1 at the glenn when I was a kid.

[Timmy!]

So how many of those top quality Toyota Supras that cost thousands more are still on the road as compared to the poor quality Mustangs?

Probably most of them! Have you seen how much a turbo Supra goes for? That is THE car to mod because the stock block will hold like 800hp and if you stroke it or build it up, 1,000-1,200 hp is no problem at all.

And to compare a 2003 Mustang Cobra to a 1994 Toyota...not sure I would compare a 9 year newer model because it really makes the Toyota that much more awesome.

I've never owned a Toyota, they don't seem to fit me well. Toyota has a habit of making the ratio of the steering wheel to the pedals weird and I have to put the seat way back and then can't reach the steering wheel. Plus, I HATE their dashboards and have no idea why car magazines always rave about how great they are.

[helmut]

I have owned nothing but toyotas and hondas all purchased with at least 50k on them and driven all of them to 150k with zero problems. I see tons of Civics, camrys, integras,etc out there. My dodge work van that only gets highway miles is a total piece of crap AC replaced 3 times, window actuaters 4 times, and the list keeps going on and on. Dom must have good karma because my dodge 2500 van is crap. I have replaced so much stuff on it you cant believe. The only other car I have owned that was worse than any of them was a Volvo S80. Lets me honest if nothing ever broke Dom would be out of business its mechanical parts they all break. Just some more than others and you can always get a lemon.
I have a Friend that was pretty high up in Ford in the south east. He now works for Toyota. He said Toyota and Ford shared inside secrets on building trucks. Toyota basically gave ford their hybrid technology in exchange for Fords truck building knowledge. I think most people would admit when it comes to full size trucks American manufacturers have dominated that market. It was not until the new Tundra's hit the market did the japanese owned trucks start making in roads. I have a Tundra and Tony and the rest can think its a piece of sh@# all they like. If I needed something ridiculous to tow with I would look to an american car manufacturer but as long as I am just towing my boat to Doms and a quarter mile trip to the lake I will keep my Tundra with the smaller 4.7 engine.

Tony would you be just as happy if I drove a Malibu off your lot??? I can just see Tony driving his mustang listening to Molly Hatchet flirtin with disaster. Oh yeah and Obama sucks and so do the rest of the dems!!! Oh and that list you gave us lots of people might question who that was done for me being lower middle class and a small business owner and not a rich one!

[helmut]

Oh and one more thing PC's suck MAC's rule!!!

[Ewok]

Supra production numbers from supracarparts.com:

1986-1992 - 108,565
1993-1998 - 12,052 these are the ones with the big engines
1999 - toyota stops sales in US
2002- toyota stops production

Im sure many more Mustangs were produced in this timeframe. Just saying...